376 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

I support weight limits...they are sorely needed but....my point in the OP was that this does not work with 12-man queue in its current form. Either they will eliminate the 12-man completely (and allow 1-11 man teams), or they will effectively break the 12-man queue. This is based on the assumption that a lobby system will not be implemented at the same time as the drop weight limits.

[Snoopy]

Amsro, on 28 November 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

LOL serious? You think people will stop buying mechs they like because maybe they might not be able to drop EVERY single match with it?

This will help sell the rest of the HERO mechs that have yet to be released, you know lights

Expect more lights and mediums moving forward, and now they will a reason to be in the game.

Serious? You believe people will keep buying mechs for 20+ $/€/£ when the have a good chance to not use it at all? In every other F2P game I know/play I can buy stuff with RL money and I can use it without other people preventing me from using it.

If I like the Atlas and I do not like the Commanfo. Why should I buy it?

Like you said: it could push sales of mechs that are not even in the game.

[stjobe]

Amsro, on 28 November 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

Expect more lights and mediums moving forward, and now they will a reason to be in the game.

As I posted a few pages back, we need to give people a reason to want to play lights and mediums, not just force them to play lights and mediums.

Role warfare achieves the former, tonnage limits only the latter.

[Heffay]

Again: nothing is preventing you from playing the mech you want to play.

[Snoopy]

Heffay, on 28 November 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Again: nothing is preventing you from playing the mech you want to play.

Semantic ...

You are right. It will not prevent me trying to play my Atlas as much as before. But it could reduce the games per hour and increase the time searching a game.

Is it this what we want?

[Sidekick]

Heffay, on 28 November 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Again: nothing is preventing you from playing the mech you want to play.

True. And nobody is forced to play in matches where people use 3PV, just as promised.

Funny that this "nobody is forced to do X" would be working in my favor some day.

[Sandpit]

Snoopy, on 28 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Semantic ...

You are right. It will not prevent me trying to play my Atlas as much as before. But it could reduce the games per hour and increase the time searching a game.

Is it this what we want?

you can't have it both ways. Everyone moans and groans about MM and weight mismatches. This only applies if you feel the need to drop in a 100 ton atlas every game. There's dozens of mechs. There's dozens of opportunities for players to drop in a wide variety of different mechs. Just because you can't ALWAYS drop in one specific mech, doesn't mean it's "bad"

[Amsro]

stjobe, on 28 November 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

As I posted a few pages back, we need to give people a reason to want to play lights and mediums, not just force them to play lights and mediums.

Role warfare achieves the former, tonnage limits only the latter.

I disagree, the overarching effect on the battlefield will once again make Assaults the feared mech. No more 8vs8 Assault matches, being to timid to attack for fear of the OTHER 8 assaults on the enemy team.

Obvious current flaw is obvious.

Edit; other 4vs4 aren't typically Assaults. 12vs12 total.

Edited by Amsro, 28 November 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Edustaja]

Chemie, on 28 November 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

I support weight limits...they are sorely needed but....my point in the OP was that this does not work with 12-man queue in its current form. Either they will eliminate the 12-man completely (and allow 1-11 man teams), or they will effectively break the 12-man queue. This is based on the assumption that a lobby system will not be implemented at the same time as the drop weight limits.

Weight limits won't break 12-man if the weight limit is same for everyone. F.ex. 800-860 t for the team.

Edited by Edustaja, 28 November 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Amsro]

Snoopy, on 28 November 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Serious? You believe people will keep buying mechs for 20+ $/€/£ when the have a good chance to not use it at all? In every other F2P game I know/play I can buy stuff with RL money and I can use it without other people preventing me from using it.

If I like the Atlas and I do not like the Commanfo. Why should I buy it?

Like you said: it could push sales of mechs that are not even in the game.

Where do you get this information regarding a good chance to not use assaults?

Obviously don't buy the commando if you don't like. Does that mean Commando's should be battling the 8 assaults on the enemy team? 12vs12 matches need balance to be interesting. Biggest tonnage blob wins currently.

[Sandpit]

Edustaja, on 28 November 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Weight limits won't break 12-man if the weight limit is same for everyone. F.ex. 800-860 t for the team.

This is about the truest statement I've read posted on the forums in a very long time.

This is what balance is really about. All things are even for all players.
"But, but, if they do this it will destroy the meta!"
No, no it won't It will CHANGE the meta because everyone playing the game will play under the same rules and mechanics.

Right now every build, strategy, and tactic really does have a counter. I don't see a single thing int he game that gives you a 100% chance to win. There's nothing in the game currently that forces all players to use it or lose. Just because you can't run the exact same mech and build EVERY single time you drop without running into some extended search times once in a while does NOT mean you can't run what you want.

This is the exact same argument we had in CB and OB about R&R. Players were complaining because they couldn't run certain builds every single game every single time and make good money every single time if they suffered a bad loss due to having to actually pay for rearming and repair.

I don't understand why some players feel that they should be able to buy one mech, outfit it, and then play nothing but that mech every single game without deviation and without having to wait a little longer in queues. That's not balance, that's "I wanna play my way and right now!"

[Snoopy]

Sandpit, on 28 November 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

you can't have it both ways. Everyone moans and groans about MM and weight mismatches. This only applies if you feel the need to drop in a 100 ton atlas every game. There's dozens of mechs. There's dozens of opportunities for players to drop in a wide variety of different mechs. Just because you can't ALWAYS drop in one specific mech, doesn't mean it's "bad"

I agree with you. And I believe we both the result: balanced matches

I just do not believe tonnage limits will accomplish this.

The Atlas was only a example. It also works for the other end of the tonnage range.

If there is not enough or too much weight left in a drop I have to choose a mech from a reduced list. If I do not have such a mech I can't participate. This does not count for players already owning several mech, but could effect new andplayers.

Edited by Snoopy, 28 November 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[kuangmk11]

Snoopy, on 28 November 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

I agree with you. And I believe we both the result: balanced matches

I just do not believe tonnage limits will accomplish this.

The Atlas was only a example. It also works for the other end of the tonnage range.

If there is not enough or too much weight left in a drop I have to choose a mech from a reduced list. If I do not have such a mech I can't participate. This does not count for players already owning several mech, but could effect new andplayers.

AGAIN. It only affects you if you are in a group. There are NO total drop weight limits mentioned anywhere. As a PUG you take whatever you want, whenever you want, just like now. Wait times will be the same as now, or possibly less as the matchmaker will have an easier time matching similar weight premades.

If you are grouped up you will have to take turns in your atlas, and if you are new you always have trial mechs in every weight class to choose from.

[Snoopy]

Amsro, on 28 November 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Where do you get this information regarding a good chance to not use assaults?

Maybe I'm wrong, please correct if so.

Weight limits generate a range (min & max drop weight). This get's "filled" by each mech. If the remaing part of this "pool" is too small or too large you can not play the mech (regardless tonnage).

This is assumption of balance in a match by constraining what mechs I can pick.

It completely ignores if I have skill maxed the mech and if I'm using upgrades and a custom loadout.

[Snoopy]

kuangmk11, on 28 November 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

AGAIN. It only affects you if you are in a group. There are NO total drop weight limits mentioned anywhere. As a PUG you take whatever you want, whenever you want, just like now. Wait times will be the same as now, or possibly less as the matchmaker will have an easier time matching similar weight premades.

If you are grouped up you will have to take turns in your atlas, and if you are new you always have trial mechs in every weight class to choose from.

Maybe I'm wrong. But checking the tweets from Russ he answered five days ago : it will effect all matches, solo and 12man ques. Currently on my mobile and can't link the tweets. Sorry.

[Burke IV]

Its definately a step in the right direction, nothing wrong with balanced uneven teams either, as already said your supposed to scrap yourself when the atlas shows up. If you want to play proper mech warrior you have to accept weight limits. Still wont save us from the maps or the game objectives

[kuangmk11]

Snoopy, on 28 November 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Maybe I'm wrong. But checking the tweets from Russ he answered five days ago : it will effect all matches, solo and 12man ques. Currently on my mobile and can't link the tweets. Sorry.

Yes, all matches but only premades have limits.

[Snoopy]

kuangmk11, on 28 November 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yes, all matches but only premades have limits.

Thanks for the correction!
Do have a link?

I can only find this :
@ipox77 Well the next big matchmaking change will come after UI 2.0 goes live with weight restrictions. Same tonnage each side = very good
(https://twitter.com/...970978973110272)

[stjobe]

Snoopy, on 28 November 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Thanks for the correction!
Do have a link?

I can only find this :
@ipox77 Well the next big matchmaking change will come after UI 2.0 goes live with weight restrictions. Same tonnage each side = very good
(https://twitter.com/...970978973110272)

Keep reading:
"Will the weight restrictions apply to both solo & 12 man queue?"
"yes to all matches"

[YueFei]

I'm just shaking my head. The fact that there's a *minimum tonnage* limit proposed shows just how stupid the whole affair is. PGI really thinks light mechs are ruining this game somehow. How out of touch they are.

The NFL has an amazing sport with no minimum/maximum weight restriction on the players on the field at any one time. The only thing mandated is that you have no more than 11 men on the field. They don't ban teams from bringing in the jumbo package for short yardage situations. They don't ban teams from fielding 5 fast wide receivers designed to stretch defenses thin. No, defenses just adapt and put in the right personnel for the job.

Tonnage limits are pathetic. Role warfare has been repeatedly mentioned as the TRUE solution, the one promised from the very beginning of this game. When are they going to deliver on that? PGI putting in tonnage limits is a lazy and *ineffectual* way out.

Edited by YueFei, 28 November 2013 - 12:52 PM.