376 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 07 December 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

having to take a locust to allow for an atlas would definitely make things more challenging. Sadly this would possibly lead to 6 spiders with ECM and 6 highlanders all pop-tarting in unison.

If you assume 60t per player average (720t), you don't have to have a Locust to gain an Atlas, you can take 4 Centurion/Hunchback/Trebuchet's for 1 Atlas.

Quote

as noted from what I have read it seems clear that private matches will let you ton out however you want, and hopefully in CW we will have options for tonnage limits of 300 tons for a 12 man for pure light vs light fights too, as well as 1200 for assault vs assault.

the main goal is probably to just insure both teams have nearly = tonnage, which in and of itself will make a significant improvement to game balance, since the minute 1 team has 50+ tons on the other team a inherint handicap is in place.

I hope that drop weight limits are not static. I hope they vary based on the mission type, team, ect. I had an entire system broken out for CW back before Closed Beta was even introduced that modified values such as tonnage limits, number of players in games, number of mech weight classes, resource bidding that modifies those values, ect. Too bad that post is long gone now...

Edited by Zyllos, 10 December 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[Xenon Codex]

I really hope this "dropship mode" where the players have to choose their mechs while in a lobby is only implemented for CW battles, private matches, or just limited to group drops.

If you drop solo with a single mech, the matchmaker should attempt place you where needed and fail if it can't find a valid spot.

Because anyone who just bought the shiny new Mech of the Month™ will want to spend several days leveling it up exclusively. Which will mean a lot of people trying to play one weight class. If they don't plan for that scenario there's going to be a massive amount of discontent. Especially if they keep with current practices of releasing new mechs for MC at first where people will feel more entitled to complain.

[Johnny Z]

I didn't read all the reply's so I am not sure if this has been said yet.

The obvious way they will do drop weight is to have light, medium, and heavy lances 4 mechs each with the heavy lance having 2 assaults 2 heavies or some variation there of.

I am not sure how popular that would be but it seems the obvious way to have drop weights balanced.

I would like this system if it was implemented but that's just me, maybe everyone would hate it

[Abivard]

sooo.....a premade must agree to balance their team's weight into a mid rage arbitrary tonnage limit... why?

No more recon lances, no mores assault lances, no more light regiments, no more Steiners!
The whole universe now fields only medium mech units.

Can you just imagine the work and compromises that would go into making a group?
What about solo players? they would be forced into running only mechs under 45 tons, or risk never finding a match.

If they set the tonnage limits low enough we may even see the assault class simply disappear from the battlefield.

[Abivard]

But wait, there won't be solo players per se as they will now be forced to at least bring their mech into agreement with the teams weight limits before drop.

Does this sound like trying to Herd cats to anyone besides me?

[Sandtiger]

Sandpit, on 10 December 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

You're not forced to do anything in this game. I'm not directing this coming rant specifically at you so don't get offended....

Where in the world is anyone forced to do anything in this game?
You aren't even forced to spend a single dime on this game.
You aren't forced to play any type of weight or chassis you don't want to.
You aren't forced to go through a "level up" system to "earn" an assault mech
You aren't forced to play in a build you don't like due to mech lab customizations
You aren't forced to play in premades
You aren't forced to play in pugs
You aren't forced to do a single solitary thing in this game except play it for free in any weight class you choose.

Does that mean you'll have longer load times as a pug sometimes? Maybe
Does that mean you'll have to adjust a few things from time to time? Maybe
Does that mean you're forced to play in a specific weight class you don't like? No

There are FAR too many players in this game right now that seem to think because they have to spend a few hours to earn enough for an assault mech, or get owned by something they aren't willing to learn how to counter, or can't understand (or just plain refuse to adapt) to new mechanics, that the entire game should be catered to them.
Let me clarify something right quick as well. This is not new players, this is not average players, this is not bottom-end players, this is a small niche.

We have 3 classes of players here. Much like society operates, most players fall into the 80%, we have about 7% on either end of the spectrum that are slightly above and below average, and then we have 3% on either end of the spectrum that are well above or well below average.

Want to know who the game should be balanced for? Well it's not going to be the ends of the spectrum. It's that 80% that see the game as pretty well balanced. How do I know those above percentages are correct? Well, I'm glad you asked. They're correct because they're ALWAYS correct. They aren't exact but they are very close. How do I know this? Well, because it's statistical science.

Ok rant off

Weight limits aren't going to force anyone into anything. That's already been specifically stated by the dev team (no I don't have citation, I don't need it for myself, I know it's true and I've read it but you can go search it up if you feel you need citation) that noone will be forced to play anything.

Where in the world is anyone forced to do anything in this game?
You aren't even forced to spend a single dime on this game. (No, but if you want an Extra Cbill and experience boost without paying an exhobant amount of money for premium time, you spend just as much for a hero mech, that you cannot purchase with C-bills. So YES, you kind of are)
You aren't forced to play any type of weight or chassis you don't want to. (Oh no, we can play what we want in Private matches, WOW really. How about when my assault lance buddies wants to assault a planet...oh wait, guess not. So YES, we are kind of forced to play a weight class & Chassis that we don't want to play)
You aren't forced to go through a "level up" system to "earn" an assault mech. (No we can pay for them with money, but I guess your not getting that my buddies and I can't pilot assaults together because of the weight restrictions)
You aren't forced to play in a build you don't like due to mech lab customizations. (No, not because of mech lab customizations, but because of weight limits we are)
You aren't forced to play in premades (really, what if we only own assaults or heavies, and all the tonnage is taken up? I guess we will be forced to play in premades)
You aren't forced to play in pugs (I keep seeing that, I guess now would be a good time to ask, just what the heck is a PUG?)
You aren't forced to do a single solitary thing in this game except play it for free in any weight class you choose. Not really, I guess it could be argued that I can. I just won't be able to play with my friends, which is why i started playing this game in the first place. Or better yet my wife. "Sorry Bascha, you cant run your highlander because I want to take my atlas. It's the tonnage limits and all")

And you know this is statistical science? In other words. I don't have any data to support what I am saying, but you had better trust me because I know what I am talking about!~ Grins. Ok, here is some statistical data for you. Planetside 1 & 2. Call of Duty, Etc... See what happened to those games when they introduced "Balance" Also, here is a few links that says balance sucks, and why it kills game play. It makes lazy players excellent, and turns excellent pilots into mediocher ones. I may be breaking some rules by posting these links, but I see no way to present my case without doing so. I will gladly take my reprimands if needs be. So here you are.

http://www.pcgamer.c...ra-2-interview/
http://www.ign.com/b...-halo-game-ever
https://forums.stati...is-game.155079/
http://mp1st.com/201...ple-with-facts/

With that in mind. STEP UP YOUR GAME, Because the Balance some players are wanting is killing this game. Its not true balance when you take away from a players abilities, to cater to those who want easy victories, or are frustrated because they don't learn as fast as others. We are tired of having our mechs and equipment dumbed down through Nurfing our equipment, or unneccessary restrictions. Players should have the choice of which mech they want to pilot. If they have afforded it, and payed real money for it, we should not be restricted to utilizing mechs that we may or may not have. It is simply wrong.

In laymans terms. A player should not have to suffer because they are a better pilot. And better players than me should not have to suffer just because of their skill. YOU have the same choices we do, the same weapons, the same armour, the same engine, etc... Just because you want to pilot a specific mech, doesn't mean you should have the ability to force me to play something that I don't want to play. My clan payed for our hero assault mechs, we would like to use them together, and be an assault lance!
I want to play with my friends in an Assault lance, and not be hindered by tonnage limits. I want to play in my Raven, or my Shadowhawk, and not have to worry about my weapons being nurfed because I can effectivly use them, so another players pride can be soothed. I don't care if there are 10-12 Atlases on the other team when I am in my Raven. I will kill them just the same.

And let ME clarify that I don't represent a cliche as you would like the devs to believe. I represent the common player, the MAJORITY of players who would like to see the game they fell in love with remain playable. Players who have spent nearly a thousand dollars each because of the passion we have for this game. Who can no longer utilize the money we spent on Hero mechs, that we ill not get to use together, because of this imposed restriction.

So what is next after tonnage limits? You realize that this is not a sollution to your problem, and it doesn't end here. I have an idea, why don't I get my buddies together, and spam the forums complaining to the devs about how its to hard to hit the light and medium mechs because they move to fast. How about we make you guys an easier target to hit in the name of balance? Is the problem truly that your mech is too fast, or is the problem because I can't aim well enough?

Don't get me wrong. I understand that you want equal tonnage, it's harder to win when the other team over tons you, I will grant you that. But to be honest with you. I don't even notice, nor even care if the opposition does outweigh my side It is harder to win, but its not that hard. And it makes the victory all the sweeter! So please don't victimize those of us who don't have a problem with the current system. It's not our fault you feel out classed because the oposition has (at times) heavier mechs.

OK, thats my rant. =]

[GRiPSViGiL]

Tonnage decides games more often than not and every time equal skilled teams are involved.

Tonnage limits are way over due!

[SmurfOff]

GRiPSViGiL, on 18 December 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Tonnage decides games more often than not and every time equal skilled teams are involved.

Tonnage limits are way over due!

I would say tonnage mismatches are the deciding factor. The higher the disparity in tonnage, the more likely combat will be one sided.

[GRiPSViGiL]

SmurfOff, on 18 December 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I would say tonnage mismatches are the deciding factor. The higher the disparity in tonnage, the more likely combat will be one sided.

That is exactly what I was inferring.

[Kanya Pryde]

Xanquil, on 26 November 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

I have a radical idea. Make a 600-700 ton limit and get rid of the 12v12 set up. Keep 12 as the most you can have on one side but you are running 6 atlas than that is all you have. It would make for an interesting test if nothing else.

I like this suggestion... a lot!

[barnmaddo]

WOW manages just fine when requiring class balance on auto formed instance groups.

The queue times are higher for the popular classes, same will be true in MWO.

[Frankdark]

How about dropship cost for higher tonnage.

Normal Puk fun game.

Starting as a single Player
Mission Reward Win / Lose - Drop Cost, depending on Mech t
Ranking points for Light/Med/Heavy/Assault Mech.

4 + 12 Man Team
Mission Reward Win/Lose - Team tonnage drop Cost
Ranking points for Teamplay for more than 240t its less, for less than 240t its 1/2 more % points.

Create Units ( subcaegory of clan system )
for 4 or 12 man
now the Creater of the Unit can invited players to the unit ( permanently ) and Levels
- Commander can invited or Kick members
- Leutenend can start a drop of the team and invite temporal members to drop
- Members are part of the Unit ( showed in history )

[Bounty Dogg]

So....who decides who drives what on a PuG?

[Chemie]

Mexican stand off (You take the locust instead of the Atlas.....No you!)

[Joseph Mallan]

SmurfOff, on 18 December 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I would say tonnage mismatches are the deciding factor. The higher the disparity in tonnage, the more likely combat will be one sided.

BattleTech Truism.
If you want to ensure victory you must have 3x the enemy's (known) forces. If you are guarding a Thunderbolt Factory with 400 Tons. I wanna bring 1,200 tons so I can take your factory and stock up on cheaper Thunderbolts. Now I am defending that Factory with 1,200 tons, you cannot bring 3,600 tons of 'Mechs so you cannot ensure victory.

As the Law, do we want the enemy to have a chance to take our stuff from us? I know I don't want anyone coming to my house and be able to leave with a dime. Yes its a game, but its a game of conquest, an that means you take what you want by force. So I have no interest in being fair and accommodating to someone who wants to steal from me. I find it counter productive to acquiring "stuff". Pry my stuff outta my cold dead hands if you want it!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 19 December 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[ZachKells]

Heres a thought. If you want weight balance it better be in its own que. Weight balance is clanner stuff...And IS dont play that s*it and if you think otherwise you need to get in line to sign up with our distant honor bound stupids

[anonymous161]

Meh at this point so many peope hate these devs and have a lot of issues with the game even if it at it's core is fun just not enough features in the game to be fun for very long.

SHUT IT DOWN