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We've Done The Impossible. The Awesome Is Even More Useless.


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#121 Sharp Spikes

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:14 AM

My Elo is alongside "Lord D-Bag GGCLOSE, Lord A-Hole, blah-blah mechworks #1, Your wives Lives... I claim them" etc. etc. B)

ON TOPIC.
PGI could base armour restrictions on weight-class rather than on mech weight. For example: all light mechs have limit of 238 armour points, all mediums - 370 a.p. and so on. Also they could make Ferro-Fibrous Armour not only to save weight, but also to increase armour cap. These two things would greatly help to increase viability of "bottom of the class" mechs and are much easier to implement then resizing all models in a proper way.

Edited by Sharp Spikes, 29 November 2013 - 10:26 AM.


#122 C E Dwyer

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:11 AM

Sing let the children play by Cat Stevens

#123 Mystere

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:28 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 29 November 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Now get off my lawn!


Your lawn? Your so-called lawn is encroaching on my hacienda!

#124 Mechteric

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:33 AM

80 ton mechs are in that nether region between heavies and assaults. I truly consider them more like heavies anyway in terms of what you can use them for. If you think you can sponge damage like an assault then you're doing it wrong.

#125 DaZur

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:41 AM

View PostCathy, on 29 November 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Sing let the children play by Cat Stevens

You mean Where do the children play? B)

...Unless you meant Santana. ;)

#126 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:43 AM

View PostCapperDeluxe, on 29 November 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

80 ton mechs are in that nether region between heavies and assaults. I truly consider them more like heavies anyway in terms of what you can use them for. If you think you can sponge damage like an assault then you're doing it wrong.


Agreed, that is why I love my Victors. The Awesome 8Q and 9M are to slow and lumbering to be as quick as the Victor and as cool to pilot. With the lack of JJ's the Awesome needs help to make it viable, move one of the gun ports to the right arm and remove Ghost heat on 3 ERPPC/PPC/LL/ERLL/LPL builds would be a good start.

#127 DaZur

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:05 PM

Awesomes are viable, albeit one dimensional for the role they were intended to fulfill... Ranged support.

Look at all the Awesome variants... all are configured around ranged support (Minus the mess that is PB)...

The problem contributing to their present situation is three-fold:

- Folks look at it, see a brute and presume it can brawl... Strike one.
- No medium or heavy pilots want to support / babysit the Awesome if / when it's sets-up shop at range... Nope, No ECM protection, no harassment interdiction and no AMS umbrella. Strike two.
-Falsely propped by conical lore and fluff... Strike three.

It's just an average niche range support platform at best. I'm not sure what's more painful to watch... someone in a Atlas, Highlander or Stalker typing to cap-race... or someone trying to brawl in an Awesome.

Edited by DaZur, 29 November 2013 - 12:41 PM.


#128 VIPER2207

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:39 PM

View PostRickySpanish, on 29 November 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Once again, if you're going to troll go for it, but admit that it's trolling!


just for clarification...
since we are in a thread about awesomes, your point is, that everyone who is running an awesome is a troll?

#129 krolmir

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 09:32 AM

Hmm , I like it when people say the Awesome should only be Ranged Support, may I counter with the Jager should only be Anti-Aircraft...
Because that was its original intended role............................. ;)

#130 krolmir

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:47 AM

On another note lets compare the Victor and Awesome, well take a look at the Victor First. 80 tons, tall slender profile, ballistics, missiles, and energy capable. All Victor variants can mount up to 385 motor size, and JJ's. Most Variants mount the Ballistics and Energy in the arms, and missiles in the torso, with the exception of the DragonSlayer which includes energy in the torsos and arms.

PRO: Harder to hit at range because of profile, better brawler, better direct fire ranged fire support, more maneuverable
CON: Not a good LRM boat.

Now for the Awesome. 80 tons, relatively Tall and super Fat profile, Energy and Missile capable, most variants are capped at 300 motor size, with the exception of the 9M and Pretty Baby. Most variant's weapon hard points are torso heavy.

PRO: Two variants make for competent LRM boats. However, it is eclipsed in this job by stalkers and catapults.
CON: Large size makes for easy target at any range of engagement. Poor brawler because the best variants lack motor size to grant decent agility. Poor direct fire support mech because of the low mounted energy points. The best variants for agility and maneuverability have the worst hard point layouts. Has no low heat weapons to fall back on when heat is high.

#131 Lightfoot

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:48 AM

View PostDaZur, on 29 November 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Awesomes are viable, albeit one dimensional for the role they were intended to fulfill... Ranged support.

Look at all the Awesome variants... all are configured around ranged support (Minus the mess that is PB)...

The problem contributing to their present situation is three-fold:

- Folks look at it, see a brute and presume it can brawl... Strike one.
- No medium or heavy pilots want to support / babysit the Awesome if / when it's sets-up shop at range... Nope, No ECM protection, no harassment interdiction and no AMS umbrella. Strike two.
-Falsely propped by conical lore and fluff... Strike three.

It's just an average niche range support platform at best. I'm not sure what's more painful to watch... someone in a Atlas, Highlander or Stalker typing to cap-race... or someone trying to brawl in an Awesome.


"(The Awesome) became one of the most feared BattleMechs of all time. The Awesome is built around its impressive all energy based arsenal and heavy armor making it a highly independent and powerful assault 'Mech. Rugged and reliable, the Awesome is traditionally used in a vanguard role when penetrating enemy defenses. The Awesome's massive firepower also lends it to defensive actions, acting as a mobile turret when necessary. Because of its reliance on PPCs, the Awesome is able to act independently for extended periods of time. This trait is also useful in siege situations where the 'Mech can keep up a constant barrage, allowing it to win battles of attrition through bleeding an enemy dry." .....................................

The Awesome is most definately not a support mech. It's one of the most feared battlemechs of all time. Used in the vanguard (means first to attack) when making assaults.

You must mean what MWO turned the Awesome into with DHS 1.4 and Ghost Heat which are balancing crutches MWO uses to keep from imploding. Those are not Battletech supporting elements though, they defy Battletech norms. They may produce a game players don't whine as much about when cored, but that's their only value. In fact Ghost Heat and DHS 1.4 have turned MWO into GunWarrior. Battletech would have the three weapon types being roughly equal so that map enviornment can play it's part in determining what 'Mechs and loadouts will be favored. MWO's GunWarrior ensures that the best loadout is massed ACs even on Frozen City where the -200c temperature should make the map nothing but screaming ERPPCs and massed LLAS. And a playground for Awesomes and their likenesses.

Improved Cooling Jacket

I have brought up this Battletech Quirk as possibly aiding the Awesome with Ghost Heat. I couldn't guess the liklihood of it's addition to MWO, but if any 'Mech could field it, it's the Awesome. It could either grant Full (Battletech Normal) DHS 2.0's or allow the use of an extra Energy weapon before a Heat Scale penalty is applied. So 3 PPCs or 3 LLAS or both.

However, the only thing that will help Energy based Assaults like the Awesome is full DHS 2.0, which would also turn MWO into a MechWarrior balanced game where the map determines the best loadouts, not Ghost Heat. Give or take, I am not a TT purest, but I know the best MechWarrior balance is the one where the map's enviornment determines the best loadout for the mission.



;)

Edited by Lightfoot, 30 November 2013 - 10:58 AM.


#132 Koniving

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostLightfoot, on 30 November 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

You must mean what MWO turned the Awesome into with DHS 1.4 and Ghost Heat which are balancing crutches MWO uses to keep from imploding. Those are not Battletech supporting elements though, they defy Battletech norms.


You're leaving out three things.

The first, raising thresholds is also not a Battletech/Mechwarrior norm. In MW3, tabletop, the first Battletech computer games, etc., the threshold is 30. MW2 in its initial release was 30, in the PSX and subsequent releases it raised to "40" (MWO's trial mech threhsold for the 'crappy' stock trial mechs) for an "arcade-like" feel. MW4 raised that threshold to 60 (the rate we get with a 250 engine and 10 built-in true DHS on MWO + Elite skills to raise the 50 threshold to 60). All mechs are able to fire more and spam more because of this raising threshold. On MWO, we have this awful feature.

The second aspect is despite the huge fear of the Awesome, no one could actually spam alpha strikes and ballistic weapons were multi-shot rather than single shot. (Example, the Hunchback's AC/20 is a 5 shot weapon in lore, each shot doing 4 damage. Tabletop doesn't account for weapon variants however and summarizes the events in 10 seconds, giving people the false dellusion of constant alpha strikes). And thus, with chain fire the Awesome was incredibly powerful for a stock rig.

Finally, we have 2.0 heatsinks. To get 10 of them, run a 250 or larger engine. If you run a 225 engine you get 9 true doubles. The 1.4 DHS are those that you manually add by dragging and dropping. Doesn't matter where.

When we combine these the rising threshold, ghost heat, and the fact that everyone spams alpha strikes (due to the rising threshold) and then we have the real reason the Awesome is awful. It's forced to fire in volleys of 20 damage, when all other mechs can do alpha strikes of 55 damage or more. It adds up and it adds up quick.

Were raising thresholds removed and it hardset to 30 we would not need ghost heat. Consider this. If you hit 30 points of heat, you shut down. AC/20 generates 6 heat. Medium laser generates 4. LPL generates 8.5. Start mixing and matching. Make something that could hit 30 in a single shot. How about 2 ER PPCs? 15 + 15 = 30. Now, what happens when you add more heatsinks? ....Nothing. Nothing at all. You still shutdown at 30. But if you have a bunch of heatsinks, you can fire one... wait a few seconds, fire the other, wait a few seconds, fire the first, etc. 3 regular PPCs = 30 heat.

"Wait a second, what about the tabletop spam and heat neutrality?"

It's heat neutrality in 10 seconds. If you fire and shutdown, you'll be at 0 in 10 seconds. If you chain fire them each once within 10 seconds, you will be heat neutral and 0 heat in 10 seconds. The problem in this regard isn't the mech, but the core heat system. Ghost heat and the 1.4 thing don't really affect it due to rising thresholds. But enemies getting to alpha strike relentlessly... that does.

#133 Alekzander Smirnoff

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 01:06 PM

This is my favorite Awesome, AWS-8T. Also carry an adv target decay and adv sensor range in that puppy.

Mech'  | Matches Played | Wins | Losses | Ratio | Kills | Deaths | Ratio | Damage Done | XP Earned | Time Played
AWESOME AWS-8T _|_ 139 _|_ 71 _|_ 68  _|_ 1.04 _|_  127 _|_ 82  _|_  1.55 _|_  42,295 _|_ 131,559 _|_ 12:58:40


#134 VIPER2207

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:45 PM

View Postkrolmir, on 30 November 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

PRO: Two variants make for competent LRM boats. However, it is eclipsed in this job by stalkers and catapults.


while i agree with you in almost all your points, please explain how/why they are eclipsed?

#135 DaZur

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 07:40 PM

View Postkrolmir, on 30 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Hmm , I like it when people say the Awesome should only be Ranged Support, may I counter with the Jager should only be Anti-Aircraft...
Because that was its original intended role............................. :rolleyes:

I hear you.... Problem is we are discussing real-world (well within the games world) application and to counter your point, the "dakka" a jager is capable of allows it to "toe-up" in brawl, while the present iteration of PPC makes the Awesome a jucie target inside brawl range.

View PostLightfoot, on 30 November 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

**Nice Sarna fluffery...

Like my answer above... the "fluff" does not match the mech nore it's primary variants. All it's configurations are designed around ranged support... Canon can say it's a pink fluffy bunny for all I care... It's a big'ol - big as a barn - Ranged support Assault. :)

Truth is, Even if PGI placates the standing demands to remodel it and gives it the "biggest Loser" treatment... It's default armament and variants predicate "ranged support"...

#136 Alekzander Smirnoff

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 12:34 PM

Good God, I got used to using the {Scrap} side torso hitbox to shield the CT hitbox, I'd turn sideways and hold CTRL to swing the arms and keep the torso angle off center. Now there's just no way to do that, I die even faster!

#137 Kjudoon

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:17 PM

View PostRickySpanish, on 27 November 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

I've seen more Awesomes, and always lament the fact when they're on my team. Why would I want an Awesome on my team when I could have a Victor? Or a Highlander? Or a D-DC? Or a Stalker? Or even a non ECM Atlas?

The poor Mech wasn't the greatest before the heat changes, all it does now is remain an eye-sore on the battlefield for a little bit longer.

Everything the Awesome does, other Assaults do better... Other than sucking. The Awesome is definitely quite good at that.

Seriously folks, don't run that chassis. Please.


Except be a faster assault LRM boat from what /i see. Stalkers have the tubes but no speed or maneuverability.

I wish Victors could LRM





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