136 replies to this topic

[East Indy]

Very interesting read; thank you.

I wish weight limits could be implemented sooner than later.

Better yet, I wish PGI would simply run arbitrary limits on the test server now to observe how player behavior changes when most 'Mechs are under 65 tons. I think most of the disincentive for running a medium is artificial, due to zero logistical restraints.

[aniviron]

stjobe, on 03 December 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Sort of like this? It'll be a two-year old idea in February and it would be glorious to have.

Ah, to be young, trusting, and stupid again. :[

[Karl Streiger]

stjobe, on 03 December 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Sort of like this? It'll be a two-year old idea in February and it would be glorious to have.

Yep - it would have been (but hey now we got modules - to have some functions of the second picture)

But of course it could have been like this:
Only a fast made pic (not made in months of careful planing and designing - but in 1 hour)
An all in ALL - Skill Tree:
You start with ONE version of a Mech - other versions have to be unlocked
You need Skill Points for modification, improvement of your Mech and Rolles

Edited by Karl Streiger, 03 December 2013 - 11:59 PM.

[Artgathan]

SniperCon, on 03 December 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

[/size]
Here are the equations for turn speed and maximum speed per engine rating. I don't know the numbers for torso twist.

Turn speed (degrees/s) = 22.93 + ( Engine Rating - ( Mech Tons * 2 ) ) / 5 * 57.33 * ( Mech Tons ^ -1 )
Maximum speed (kph) = 32.4 + ( Engine Rating - ( Mech Tons * 2 ) ) / 5 * 81 * ( Mech Tons ^ -1 )

This is before mech skill unlocks or mech quirks. Turn speed is based on stationary mech and is reduced slightly the faster you are moving.

edit: units

I'm not sure if the formula for Turn Speed is correct (the fact that the formula for top speed isn't the standard seen elsewhere makes me wary). However, after seeing what values it generates it *appears* to be correct.

EDIT: I checked and the formula does indeed generate the correct values (or at least values that match up with what has been posted on Smurfy). Thanks again!

Therefore! I created a gunnery chart and discovered this fun fact:

At any range greater than 60m, an Atlas with a 360-Rated Engine can track any mech in the game using it's turning alone (no torso twist required)! Holy catfish Batman! How did I calculate this?

• Given SniperCon's Formula (many thanks for that by the way!):
  
  
  
  Turn speed (degrees/s) = 22.93 + ( Engine Rating - ( Mech Tons * 2 ) ) / 5 * 57.33 * ( Mech Tons ^ -1 )

• 
  
  First calculate the turn speed of the mech in degrees / second. For an Atlas with a 360 engine you get

49.53 Degrees / Second = ( 22.93 + (360 - 200) / 5 * 57.33 * (1 / 100) ) * 1.2 (For Elite Skill Bonus)

• Then, using a gunnery conversion chart, we find that a change in 1 degree results in a difference of 1.52m at 91.44 metres. This means that if I aim a compass at a stick 91.44 metres away from me, then aim the compass 1 degree to the side and put a new stick in the ground at 91.44 metres away from me, the two sticks will be 1.52 metres apart.
  
• Using this, we can convert the Atlas' Turn Speed into a tracking speed. Since the Atlas can spin at 49.53 degrees per second, this means that it can follow a target that moves 75.29 metres per second at 91.44 metres. What is 75.29 m/s in kph you ask? 271!

Even equipped with a 300 Engine, the Atlas can easily track targets moving at 66 kph at a range of 25 metres. At 50 metres, this Atlas can track targets moving 133.8 kph.


Bear in mind that these numbers do not include the extra speed gained from the Atlas' ability to torso twist - these numbers are based purely on the Atlas turning right or left using only its legs.

What does this show? Mechs turn way too fast. All of them. The slowest mech in the game can easily track the fastest mechs at all but the shortest (less than 50 metres) ranges. In Tabletop an Atlas could turn at roughly 18 degrees / second. MW:O has nearly tripled this value without tripling the agility of mechs, resulting in every mech being able to acquire any target in the game with ease (while in TT an Atlas would have struggled to keep a Shadow Hawk in it's sights).

Increasing turn speeds has several effects:

• It forces pilots to pilot faster mechs in the hopes of staying out of someone's guns
  
• It encourages brawling

How does it encourage brawling?


As a target moves further away, you have to turn slower to keep it in your sights. To imagine this, think of what it looks like when a plane flys by overhead (at cruising altitude). A 747 has a top speed of 988 kph, but it looks like it's barely moving. The closer that plane gets to you, the "faster" it appears to be. The same principle applies here.

Consider that if a light mech wants to stand a chance against an Assault, it needs to face-hug. Even then, there will always be a split-second where that light is under the Assault's guns.

Bear in mind that decreasing Turn Speed would encourage long-distance fighting (since slow mechs will only be able to acquire fast targets at longer distances). This can be mitigated by playing with torso twist and arm-reflex values (I believe that we should give mech arms a wider firing window, which would allow more "skilled" piloting to emerge).

Edited by Artgathan, 05 December 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[SniperCon]

Durant Carlyle, on 03 December 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

I don't know if your Turn Speed formula is correct, but I do know that your Maximum Speed formula is either overly complex or incorrect. Just looking at it made my head hurt.

Maximum Speed = (Engine Rating / 'Mech Maximum Weight) * 16.2

Artgathan, on 04 December 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

I'm not sure if the formula for Turn Speed is correct (the fact that the formula for top speed isn't the standard seen elsewhere makes me wary). However, after seeing what values it generates it *appears* to be correct.

I backed into the complicated equations a different way and didn't realize they reduce.

The simplified equations are:
Max Speed (kph) = 16.2 * Engine Size / Mech Tons
Turn Speed (deg/s) = 11.465 * Engine Size / Mech Tons

[Doctor Proctor]

Artgathan, on 04 December 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

I'm not sure if the formula for Turn Speed is correct (the fact that the formula for top speed isn't the standard seen elsewhere makes me wary). However, after seeing what values it generates it *appears* to be correct.

Therefore! I created a gunnery chart and discovered this fun fact:

At any range greater than 60m, an Atlas with a 360-Rated Engine can track any mech in the game using it's turning alone (no torso twist required)! Holy catfish Batman! How did I calculate this?

[snipped a lot of calculations]

Yes, I've been saying this for awhile. In my Hunchback 4G, for example, it's almost impossible to maneuver for a back shot on an Atlas if he's tracking you since between his turn speed (which could track me decently alone) and his twist speed you'll basically only get a split second window to make the shot.

I believe that this is a big part of the reason that Medium mechs aren't fielded in large numbers. A Heavy that can go close to the same speed presents the same hit opportunities to the Atlas as he tracks, but has more armor to handle the damage he'll take. Plus, when the Heavy actually does fire, he has a much better chance of breaking through the Atlas' armor (either front or rear).

Lights, on the other hand, can easily outmaneuver unskilled Atlas pilots or an Atlas with a smaller engine, and their short height means that face hugging them can often times make it difficult to bring your weapons to bear on them even when they have the shot opportunity. Plus, since many lights have jump jets, this gives them some extra room to maneuver and try things like jumping over their head.

Artgathan, on 04 December 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Increasing turn speeds has several effects:

• It forces pilots to pilot faster mechs in the hopes of staying out of someone's guns
  
• It encourages brawling

How does it encourage brawling?


As a target moves further away, you have to turn slower to keep it in your sights. To imagine this, think of what it looks like when a plane flys by overhead (at cruising altitude). A 747 has a top speed of 988 kph, but it looks like it's barely moving. The closer that plane gets to you, the "faster" it appears to be. The same principle applies here.

Consider that if a light mech wants to stand a chance against an Assault, it needs to face-hug. Even then, there will always be a split-second where that light is under the Assault's guns.

Bear in mind that decreasing Turn Speed would encourage long-distance fighting (since slow mechs will only be able to acquire fast targets at longer distances). This can be mitigated by playing with torso twist and arm-reflex values (I believe that we should give mech arms a wider firing window, which would allow more "skilled" piloting to emerge).

One thing I would say about this is that you're neglecting the Medium mechs here. A Medium mech like a Hunchback has decent speed and might be able to survive to close to within brawling range (we already have to do this to an extent due to the PPC/AC spam meta that waxes and wanes). Once there, reduced turning speeds would allow Mediums to act better as harassers and get behind large, slow moving Assault mechs in order to bring those brawling weapons to bear on them without getting one shotted by a huge alpha. This in conjunction with the drop weight limits might help to encourage smaller and more maneuverable mechs that can't really mount those long range weapon loadouts in large numbers. So it might actually help brawling depending on how it's implemented.

Edited by Doctor Proctor, 04 December 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[Artgathan]

Doctor Proctor, on 04 December 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Yes, I've been saying this for awhile. In my Hunchback 4G, for example, it's almost impossible to maneuver for a back shot on an Atlas if he's tracking you since between his turn speed (which could track me decently alone) and his twist speed you'll basically only get a split second window to make the shot.

I believe that this is a big part of the reason that Medium mechs aren't fielded in large numbers. A Heavy that can go close to the same speed presents the same hit opportunities to the Atlas as he tracks, but has more armor to handle the damage he'll take. Plus, when the Heavy actually does fire, he has a much better chance of breaking through the Atlas' armor (either front or rear).

Lights, on the other hand, can easily outmaneuver unskilled Atlas pilots or an Atlas with a smaller engine, and their short height means that face hugging them can often times make it difficult to bring your weapons to bear on them even when they have the shot opportunity. Plus, since many lights have jump jets, this gives them some extra room to maneuver and try things like jumping over their head.

I'd be surprised if you actually get so much as a "split-second" to take the shot actually. Even at 25m the Atlas can easily track mechs moving 64 kph (the speed of a Stock Hunchback). The Atlas has a torso twist speed of 60 degrees / second, meaning that it can track targets moving 54 kph at 10m just be torso twisting. If you add in the turn speed, it can achieve a maximum tracking of 100 degrees / second, allowing it to track targets running at 82 kph at 10m.

I discovered that Smurfy carries the torso pitch/yaw and arm pitch/yaw speeds, which allowed for an interesting conclusion to this mobility saga.

An Atlas [Mastered] with a 300-Rated Engine has the following abilities:

• Top Speed: 53.5 kph
  
• Turn Speed: 41.28 Degrees / Second
  
• Twist Speed: 84 Degrees / Second
  
• Arm Speed: 175.5 Degrees / Second

This gives it the following tracking abilities at the following distances, indicated for torso-mounted weapons [Torso] and arm-mounted weapons [Arms]. This means that at Distance X is can Target moving Speed Y:

• At 10 metres - [Torso]: 74 kph - [Arms]: 129 kph
  
• At 25 metres - [Torso]: 187 kph - [Arms]: 327 kph
  
• At 50 metres - [Torso]: 374 kph - [Arms]: 648 kph
  
• At Ranges > 50 metres - [Both]: trololololo

NOTE: These values indicate the maximum tracking speed attainable by combining the speed of the location (either arms or torso) with the overall turn speed of the Atlas. The Atlas cannot maintain these tracking speeds indefinitely (since eventually it will hit the torso twist limit / arm limit and be reduced to its turning speed for tracking), but it can use them in small bursts. For instance, if an Atlas is torso twisted all the way to the left and wants to track something running towards it's right side with an AC/20 mounted in the Atlas' torso, it will be able to maintain a tracking speed of 125.28 degrees / second for 2.28 seconds. After 2.28 seconds, it will hit the right side of its torso twist limit, at which point it can only continue tracking at 41.28 degrees / second (its turn speed).

What does this all come down to? If you're standing 25 metres away from an Atlas, and you try to circle strafe it to death, you won't be able to outrun its guns for the first 2.28 seconds of the engagement. After that, as long as you're moving faster than 66 kph, you'll be able to out-pace its guns (IE: stay behind it). I don't know about you, but I can line up a pretty nice alpha in 2.28 seconds.

Keep in mind that the Atlas in this example uses a 300-Rated engine. Typical Atlases on the battlefield use 350-ish Rated engines (which leads to a roughly 10% increase in turn and twist speed, and therefore, torso tracking).

The moral of the story? Assault mechs can track anything on the battlefield as long as the target is 25+ metres away. Heavies can track at even shorter ranges. Therefore, that classic Battletech Triangle of "Mobility - Armor - Firepower" sort of crumbles. While Heavy / Assault mechs might not have high top speeds (though Heavies and the 80/85 tonners can hit speeds of 80+ kph), they undoubtedly have high mobility (since they can track basically everything).

Adding collisions back in will simply make Assaults and Heavies the undisputed kings of the battlefield. With the numbers presented here, the only chance Medium / Light mechs have at brawling with the heavier mechs is to face-hug (at ranges of less than 25 metres), which means they will be extremely vulnerable to knock-downs (and subsequently, vaporization).

What's to be done? Reduce the mobility of the Heavier mechs. Reducing their turn / twist / arm speeds will allow lighter mechs to stand more of a chance on the battlefield (although a single Alpha will still be able to vaporize smaller mechs due to convergence). Reducing the mobility (not necessarily the top speed, but the turn/torso/arm speed) of Heavy/Assault mechs increases the viability of smaller mechs thus:

• It makes lighter mechs more difficult to track, directly making lighter mechs more survivable
  
• It creates a need for medium mechs, since they will be needed to protect heavier mechs from the more mobile light / medium mechs

In essence, it establishes a greater hierarchy on the battlefield, that of the classic

Light < Medium < Heavy < Assault < Light

I can forsee a change like this causing some unrest amongst the player base (particularly the Assault / Heavy players who won't enjoy not being able to solo any mech in the game), but I think it would add much more mech diversity to the battlefield and create more interesting situations for game-play (IE: the need to have lighter mechs to protect the Assaults / Heavies from lighter mechs). It'll force more cooperation on the battlefield, and allow light / medium mechs to decrease their engine sizes (so that perhaps a Commando running at 97 kph isn't a death sentence), and equip more varied loadouts (such as a Commando with SRM6 racks).

[stjobe]

Artgathan, on 05 December 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

The moral of the story? Assault mechs can track anything on the battlefield as long as the target is 25+ metres away. Heavies can track at even shorter ranges. Therefore, that classic Battletech Triangle of "Mobility - Armor - Firepower" sort of crumbles. While Heavy / Assault mechs might not have high top speeds (though Heavies and the 80/85 tonners can hit speeds of 80+ kph), they undoubtedly have high mobility (since they can track basically everything).

Adding collisions back in will simply make Assaults and Heavies the undisputed kings of the battlefield. With the numbers presented here, the only chance Medium / Light mechs have at brawling with the heavier mechs is to face-hug (at ranges of less than 25 metres), which means they will be extremely vulnerable to knock-downs (and subsequently, vaporization).

What's to be done? Reduce the mobility of the Heavier mechs. Reducing their turn / twist / arm speeds will allow lighter mechs to stand more of a chance on the battlefield (although a single Alpha will still be able to vaporize smaller mechs due to convergence). Reducing the mobility (not necessarily the top speed, but the turn/torso/arm speed) of Heavy/Assault mechs increases the viability of smaller mechs thus:

• It makes lighter mechs more difficult to track, directly making lighter mechs more survivable
  
• It creates a need for medium mechs, since they will be needed to protect heavier mechs from the more mobile light / medium mechs

In essence, it establishes a greater hierarchy on the battlefield, that of the classic

Light < Medium < Heavy < Assault < Light

I love you.

[Artgathan]

I updated the OP with an addendum discussing the findings throughout this thread.

I'd also like to point out that I ran all the numbers, and mechs 65-80 tons can easily track mechs moving at 150+ kph at 15 metres using their torso mounted weapons and a stock engine. Increased engine sizes increase the tracking ability of these mechs, meaning they'll be able to track fast-moving targets at even shorter ranges.

Also, quite interesting, is that nearly every mech (some oddball variants through this off) between 65 - 85 tons has the same torso twist speed and arm reflex speed (with a stock engine).

[aniviron]

Artgathan, these posts have been well researched, well thought-out, and well-composed. In short: solid gold. I very much hope that Paul is reading this, though I doubt it.

[Artgathan]

aniviron, on 05 December 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Artgathan, these posts have been well researched, well thought-out, and well-composed. In short: solid gold. I very much hope that Paul is reading this, though I doubt it.

Thank you for the kind words!

For my grand finale, I present you with the formulas to calculate the Tracking Speed of any mech for any engine rating:

Turning Tracking Speed (kph) = 0.191 * (Engine Rating / Mech Weight)) * (Range of Target)

Don't forget to multiply the result by 1.1 (for Basic Efficiency) or 1.2 (for Elite Efficiency).

In general, the formula for Tracking Speed is:

Tracking Speed (kph) = ((Component Speed + Turning Speed) * 1.52 / 91.44 * (Range of Target)) * 3.6

(I know it can reduce, but it gives a horrible decimal).

We can also use these to work backwards. For instance, if I thought that an Atlas with a 300-Rated Engine should be able to track targets moving at 144 kph at 270m just by turning, I can plug these numbers into the general tracking formula to get:

144 = (Turn Speed) * 1.52 / 91.44 * 270

This gives a Turn Speed of 8.90 Degrees / Second (10.68 Degrees / Second when Mastered). What does this all mean?

• In this example, the Atlas can follow a target that is circle strafing it at 144 kph, at long as the target is at least 270m away. At less than 270m, the Atlas can't track the target. This value is only for turning (IE: adding in the Torso Twist + Arm Movement would give the Atlas the ability to follow the target at ranges slightly less than 270m).
  
• However! The Atlas is now extremely ponderous. For example; it takes 33.7 seconds for the Mastered Atlas to execute a 360 degree turn.
  
• With this movement profile, the Atlas can track targets moving at 54 kph at 90m.

Let's conduct a thought experiment with the question: What would the game be like if mechs had movement profiles like the Atlas in the above example?


Let's start with some basic points:

• Assault mechs cannot out-maneuver any mechs
  
• Heavy mechs can out-maneuver Assault mechs at short ranges (<100m)
  
• Medium mechs can out-maneuver Assault (<150m) and Heavy mechs (<100m) at short ranges
  
• Light mechs can out-maneuver Assault mechs (<270m) and Heavy (<150m) and Medium (<90m) at short ranges

This doesn't look so bad! We've got a little hierarchy going. This leads to more interesting options, and in general will push the following:

• Assaults can only brawl Assaults and some Heavies
  
• Heavies can brawl Assaults, Heavies and some Mediums
  
• Mediums can brawl Assaults, Heavies, Mediums and some Lights
  
• Lights can brawl Assaults, Heavies, Mediums and Lights

So, this will lead to some (very general) pushes towards different roles for these mechs:

• Assaults: Since Assaults won't be able to effectively brawl against Medium / Light mechs, they have these options:
  
  • Engage faster mechs at range
    
  • Only brawl against Heavy or Assault mechs
    
  • Provide fire support
• Heavies: Heavies won't be able to effectively brawl against Medium / Light mechs either, so they also have similar options:
  
  • Engage faster mechs at range
    
  • Only brawl against Assault, Heavy and some Medium mechs
    
  • Provide fire support
    
  • Act as a Heavy / Assault Destroyer
• Mediums: Mediums will offer a nice blend of firepower and mobility, as per table top, allowing them to:
  
  • Brawl against Assault, Heavy, Medium and some Lights mechs
    
  • Provide mobile fire support
    
  • Defend heavier mechs from lighter mechs
• Lights: Lights will still provide the backbone of recon, but now be able to effectively engage in combat as well:
  
  • Brawl against Assault, Heavy, Medium and Light mechs
    
  • Defend heavier mechs from lighter mechs
    
  • Act as reconnaissance units
    
  • Act as short-range harassers

Using these, we come to see that a new situation will evolve on the battlefield: Assault and Heavy mechs will begin their fighting at range, only closing distance when their long-range capabilities have been exhausted, or they are needed to destroy another Assault or Heavy mech with short-range firepower.

Meanwhile Mediums and Lights will provide short-range defense against other Medium and Light mechs, while trying to get into short range to engage the Heavy and Assault mechs.

This seems... (*GASP*) sort of like table top!

Bear in mind that Assaults and Heavy mechs would still be able to deal catastrophic damage to Light and Medium mechs if they are able to get them under their guns (which they will be at medium ranges, or if the Light/Medium blindly circle strafes them instead of remaining in their rear arc).

There are a few negative consequences of this system however:

• Piloting Assault and Heavy mechs may "feel" too slow
  
• It may encourage Death-*******, since isolated Assault and Heavy mechs will get picked off by roving bands of Medium / Light mechs (in a very frustrating game of "I can't ever get you in my sights")
  
• It may encourage even more of a long-range meta amongst Heavy and Assault mechs, but that would hopefully be counter-balanced by their extreme vulnerability at short ranges.

The only real way to know how a system such as this would pan out would be to test it for a few weeks and see how players adapt.

In general I think the best way to proceed would be to reduce the Turning and Torso Twisting speed of mechs, while leaving their arm speeds relatively unchanged. I'd also suggest that in general it would be better to have a "fast" torso twist and a "slow" turn speed. This means that while the pilot can't actually spin the mech fast (which allows a fast mech to stay in it's rear arc), a clever pilot would be able to reverse directions and torso twist to get targets in their rear arc under their sights for an instant - enough to pull the trigger and deal some damage with their arm-mounted weapons. This way Assault / Heavies wouldn't be totally helpless against a light, but they would still have a significant disadvantage.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Would need to modify the Mech and Pilot Trees, but should be worth it to improve the game.

[Thorqemada]

I am confused where the 33,7 seconds come from bcs an Atlas ingame turn 360° in 10 to maybe 15 seconds and sometimes they simply switch the facing and turn immediately (connection issues i guess) - is the example based on ingame behavior?

[Artgathan]

Thorqemada, on 07 December 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

I am confused where the 33,7 seconds come from bcs an Atlas ingame turn 360° in 10 to maybe 15 seconds and sometimes they simply switch the facing and turn immediately (connection issues i guess) - is the example based on ingame behavior?

No, the example I posted was based on a hypothetical Atlas that could turn roughly 10.6 degrees per second. In MWO the Atlas turns at about 45 degrees a second (with a 300 engine), so it should be able to do a 360 in about 8 seconds (assuming it is fully Elited). I don't have the exact numbers with me ATM.

What the example was suggesting was that we need to pick a range and speed that the Atlas should be able to track at and then work backwards from that to determine its turn speed should be.

Edited by Artgathan, 07 December 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Ah, i understand, thx.

Edited by Thorqemada, 07 December 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[1 TS 1]

I don't know if I agree.

Mech's should be superior to other mechs based on tonnage. At atlas should be superior a heavy, and a heavy to a medium or light mech in battle in every situation. An Atlas is twice as heavy, and 2 to 3 times as expensive. The root of the problem is the lack of tonnage limits.

I think some tweaks can't hurt (speed bumps for mediums, slight re-sizing to make it harder to hit mediums), but other than that it's not so bad.

[stjobe]

1 TS 1, on 07 December 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Mech's should be superior to other mechs based on tonnage. At atlas should be superior a heavy, and a heavy to a medium or light mech in battle in every situation. An Atlas is twice as heavy, and 2 to 3 times as expensive. The root of the problem is the lack of tonnage limits.

I utterly and totally disagree; what you're saying is that tonnage is the only governing factor, and you dismiss agility and speed completely.

The PGI devs seems to agree. Go heavy or go home. There's only one problem with that: It leads to 12v12 Atlas matches, and nothing else. In other words, it's stupid and short-sighted.

Ideally, the heavier the 'mech the slower and less agile it should be, and - as Artgathan is so eminently showing in this thread - the less tracking speed it should have. The way to make this into a balanced game is to never fail to remember that each player only gets one 'mech at a time, so that 'mech better be viable whether it's a Locust or an Atlas.

I've said it before but it bears saying again: Heavies and Assaults in MWO are way, way faster, more mobile, and more agile than they should be, and a large part of why is those blasted pilot skills that turn an assault into a heavy and a heavy into a medium, movement and agility-wise. Those pilot skills that were originally intended for role warfare are now just making a mess of weight-class balance.

So no, 'mechs should definitely not be "superior to other mechs based on tonnage", that's an incredibly stupid and short-sighted way of balancing that leads to one thing and one thing only: Everyone running the heaviest 'mech available all the time and every other 'mech being extinct.

[arghmace]

But if a heavier mech wouldn't be better, why would anyone bring heavier mechs to weight balanced battles? Of course tonnage must bring you more power but I fully agree that heavies and assaults are too agile now.

[kapusta11]

This topic is disturbing, I bet all those theorycrafters have no idea how this all will work in practice.

[stjobe]

arghmace, on 08 December 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

But if a heavier mech wouldn't be better, why would anyone bring heavier mechs to weight balanced battles? Of course tonnage must bring you more power but I fully agree that heavies and assaults are too agile now.

Turn that around and ask yourself: If heavier 'mechs were always strictly better, who would want to bring anything lighter to battles, weight-balanced or not?