45 replies to this topic

[GLIZZY GULPER]

Hey guys, me again, with more nub questions.

My C-Bill piggy bank is getting full again, and as such I'm looking to make another purchase, this time in the heavy mech category. I've tried the K2 already, which really wasn't my cup of tea, and from what I've gathered from browsing the forums these two mechs, the Jager and the Phract, seem to be pretty well rounded.

So, which would be the better brawler? My playstyle usually ends up in me getting in their face and blasting away, and I'm looking to see what someone else thinks before I dump 5 (or 9) million C-Bills into something.

[TercieI]

In their face? Phract.

Jager can bring the dakka, but it's squishier.

[Redshift2k5]

Try some builds on Smurfy or browse for ideas on mechspecs, see what loadouts suit your taste.

Might as well check our the Orions while you're there

What don't you like about the K2? Obviously the Jagers and Phract have arm mounted ballistics instead of the K2's more restrictive torso ones (although some phracts have a mix of arm and torso ones). The Jag ha the same "no lower arm actuator" type arms while the Cataphract and Orion have fully articulated arms

Edited by Redshift2k5, 27 November 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[Bront]

Jagers are not good "in your face" mechs.

'Phrats would likely be better.

[GLIZZY GULPER]

Which Cataphract would be best for brawling? I'm leaning towards the 3D but the only thing that turns me off is the price tag.

[TercieI]

TalRavis, on 27 November 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Which Cataphract would be best for brawling? I'm leaning towards the 3D but the only thing that turns me off is the price tag.

The 3D is in the "best mech in the game" conversation. It can do almost anything the others can do with jump jets(big deal). Also, it comes with the excellent XL280, which you will use over and over in future mechs. That's the reason for the price, but it's completely worth it.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Definitely go with the Cataphracts before Jagers. Far more durable. However I would wait and save credits for the 3D which is hands down the superior Cataphract.

[NuclearPanda]

Bront, on 27 November 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Jagers are not good "in your face" mechs.

'Phrats would likely be better.

I beg to differ.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6ccdf58aa7c432

[Garth Erlam]

[color=cyan]Cataphracts are more versatile, and Jagers are more about direct-fire, higher alphas. I prefer the Phract, but the Jager is also really popular in the community.[/color]

[Jonathan Paine]

The "Jagerbomb" dual AC20 mech is really hard to beat, but cheesy and repetitive. Personally, I enjoy running 2xAC2 and 2xAC5 on a Jager. I'm not sure I agree that the 'phract is more versatile:
Jagers can:
1. Boat ballistics (no 'phract has 6 ballistics)
2. Boat (heavy) energy (though 4 energy vs 'phracts max 5)
3. Boat missiles (no 'phract can match the 4xlrm15 pipes!!!)
4. Mix and match
5. Due to the mangled implementation of arms&actuators, Jagers can fire over terrain and have more internal space
Jager>'Phract
The one caveat: the 'phract 3D is amazing!!!

[Selbatrim]

I vote jaegers for many of the same reasons. the arms of the phracts are very low and frequently you'll blast holes in the terrain where the jaeger happily clears due to the arm placement. i love my ilya though and the 2x phract but hard to beat the evil dual ac20 jaegers.

that 40 pinpoint damage is almost a gamebreaker as 2 volleys will leave most mechs a smoking heap.

the jj's on the 3d are good though.

[mark v92]

take a phract. you have the k2 already which means you got a mech that can do ac40 or dual gauss so you dont need a jager for that.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Jagermech has the arm-mounted dakka up high. Cataphract, however, is my recommendation. It's a more successful mech right now. CTF-3D and CTF-IM are solid mechs. As mentioned above, JM6 is a squishy chassis.

[Victor Morson]

Go Cataphract, for sure. It's a must have heavy for anyone looking to own some top tier 'mechs and as stated, the XL280 and lack of required upgrades offset the price tag on the 3D. While it's the most popular, the 4X and Ilya are both also awesome 'mechs, with the remaining Cataphracts also having their strengths. The 1X is arguably the weakest.

Garth Erlam, on 27 November 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

[color=cyan]Cataphracts are more versatile, and Jagers are more about direct-fire, higher alphas. I prefer the Phract, but the Jager is also really popular in the community.[/color]

What are you even talking about? Outside of the twin AC/20 setup for the Jager, the Cataphract can replicate all of the Jagers best configurations; even if not in exact guns, in terms of raw damage and usability.

Do you understand why the Jager is used, Garth? It's high mounted guns allow it to basically ridge behind hills and take peek-shots, typically from Gauss. There is a reason for twin AC/20 even, people prefer the K2 in general.

In every other setting the Jagermech is actually kind of trash. It's got huge side torsos that pop like no tomorrow thanks to it being a ballistic heavy 'mech; it's slightly too light to run the good AC/5 setups from the Cataphract too, barely matching the kind of tripple 5 config with an XL the Ilya can run with a Standard.

Again, the Jagermech has a place - it's not a write-off - but it's strengths aren't even in the ballpark of what you stated there since, again, the Cataphract can easily match the alpha numbers of the Jagger (even considering the twin AC/20 build).

But saying vague things like "The Cataphract is more about versatility not higher alphas" is just completely throwing people off and isn't really accurate to begin with. The Cataphract is 110% about "Direct fire, high damage alphas" and with the 3D you can add "from the air" to the end of that sentence.

-

Long story short:

If you're looking for a twin AC/20 'mech.. the K2 is better, which you already own OP.
If you're looking for (as you described) a 'mech with some staying power and versatility - Cataphract is a great bet.
If you want a 'mech that's primary role is sniping with ballistics from steel hill cover - Jaggermech is something to consider then.

PS: The Jagger was at least amusing with it's (not very powerful) 6x AC2 builds until Ghost Heat murdered them so they can't be used, so yeah, not a lot you can do with Jags outside of their niche.

Edited by Victor Morson, 27 November 2013 - 11:24 PM.

[sneeking]

I want a 4x ballistic jager for providing ranged artillery support, from what iv read it would be perfect for that.

but that has to wait till iv got my three centurions sorted out and added two more spiders.

much to do :s

[Victor Morson]

sneeking, on 28 November 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

I want a 4x ballistic jager for providing ranged artillery support, from what iv read it would be perfect for that.

but that has to wait till iv got my three centurions sorted out and added two more spiders.

much to do :s

In practice the Jagger is SLIGHTLY too light to mount 4 AC/5s, and AC/2s are pretty bad still.

The Cataphract 4X with it's 4 AC/5s, however, is extremely powerful for this kind of niche. Definitely worth considering.

[sneeking]

I still would try it agqinst all advice because im like that, and then id look at that weapon location thing and try to find some un seen advantage in it...

[Bront]

NuclearPanda, on 27 November 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

I beg to differ.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6ccdf58aa7c432

I find your lack of flamers disturbing.

[Redshift2k5]

Weapon location can affect how you play the mech.

Jagers have very high ballistics. Eye-level, can shoot over cover. Can shoot steeply up or down. Let's you go hull-down like a tank.

Cataphract has more tons to play with, but the arms are low, tend to hit rocks/debris unless you step fully out of cover. Less vertical angle but with some horizontal swing.

[Victor Morson]

Yep. The same even goes for the sides your firepower are on - if you have all your guns on the right side (Highlander) you can lean the right side of your 'mech around corners and shoot with that as well.

Knowing your hitbox layout and gun placement is a huge deal, and does radically impact the 'mech more than previous games. It's actually pretty cool, I just wish I was assured the people making the 'mechs understood this.