96 replies to this topic

[Khavi Vetali]

Mystere, on 03 December 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

No and no. People who move and have situational awareness should not find this a problem. But those who like to camp -- or reduce head armor -- deserve their just punishment. Which one are you?

By the way, which one of you were dismembered or worse killed by my joyful use of artillery and air strikes over the weekend?

As has been pointed out, even with full cockpit armor you can be killed by a single shell. In a slow assault, a well placed strike can be hard to avoid even if you are moving full speed, and sometimes yes, you do get caught with your pants down. In this situation I heartily agree that if you get caught in it you should be punished, heavily, but killed instantly because the RNG decided to put one of the shells into your cockpit? Too much.

I drop with arty equipped nearly every round, I know how to use it, I know how to avoid it. The personal attacks on skill in this thread are ridiculous.

I honestly won't be surprised if it has the damage toned back or the ability to hit cockpits removed. It is PGI's method to introduce something underpowered, collect metrics, boost it high, collect metrics, and then tone it to something in the middle.

[KharnZor]

Mystere, on 03 December 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

No and no. People who move and have situational awareness should not find this a problem. But those who like to camp -- or reduce head armor -- deserve their just punishment. Which one are you?

By the way, which one of you were dismembered or worse killed by my joyful use of artillery and air strikes over the weekend?

I am neither

You got me once but i was legged and almost cored after stomping 3 of your teammates
I also killed myself twice over the weekend. Last stand suicide.

[Shlkt]

Cold, hard Arty numbers (10 shells assumed):

• Average damage to a single target in the area of maximum effectiveness is 48. Damage spreads pretty evenly except for direct hits.
  
• High variance of damage to a single target; 20% chance of doing less than 24 damage, 20% chance of doing more than 70 damage. There's about a 4% chance of doing 100 damage to a single target.
  
• Area of maximum effectiveness is approx. 36 meter radius. Damage drops to 50% at about 48 meters.
  
• For comparison, a stock Atlas at full speed can run 67.5 meters in 5 seconds. So he's fast enough to escape completely if he's already moving. From a full stop, though, you need very fast reaction time
  
• A very, very good strike might have 3 targets in the maximum effective area, for an average of 144 damage.
  
• Airstrikes, in contrast, affect a smaller area than Artillery. They are harder to hit with. But since the affected area is smaller, average damage is 50% higher to a single target at ground zero (i.e. 72 average damage for a solid hit).

NOTE: It has been brought to my attention that the above numbers were calculated using the older value of a 50 meter shell drop radius. The drop radius may have been increased to 60 meters, in which case the average damage values for Artillery would need to be lowered by 30% (i.e. 33 average damage to a single target instead of 48). Sorry for the confusion... trying to nail down the actual values. That's a big difference.

Edited by Shlkt, 04 December 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Mystere]

KHETTI, on 04 December 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Map River City, using cover to avoid the direct attention of a stalker, popping in and out taking snap shots at it with an AC20, doing serious damage to it.
Next thing 4 light mechs target me, from my position they are able to block me in between my cover, 2 front, 2 behind, ie they are using their mechs to ram and block me there, i'm pinned, they drop multiple arties on me, make a run for it just as they strike.

Ahem! Only one artillery strike can be launched by each team at any given time. As such, I am extremely doubtful of your story.

[Mystere]

KharnZor, on 04 December 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I am neither

Dang it! Now I have to formulate a new use case for special snowflakes like you.

KharnZor, on 04 December 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I also killed myself twice over the weekend. Last stand suicide.

Copycat!

[KharnZor]

Mystere, on 04 December 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Dang it! Now I have to formulate a new use case for special snowflakes like you.




Copycat!

Yes i r special!
I know you are but what am i?
lol


*edit* good to know i'm not the only crazy blowing themselves up. I care not from where the blood flows, only that it flows

Edited by KharnZor, 04 December 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[tucsonspeed6]

KHETTI, on 04 December 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

...they are able to block me in between my cover, 2 front, 2 behind, ie they are using their mechs to ram and block me there...

Mystere, on 04 December 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Ahem! Only one artillery strike can be launched by each team at any given time. As such, I am extremely doubtful of your story.

No, it really happened. I was there and caught it all in a video...

[Sandpit]

YAY!!!! Does this mean we've finally moved past LRM, AC, Poptart, and Assault "FoTM" QQ?

[Sean von Steinike]

I like the strikes for breaking up death balls, annoying poptarters, interfering with caps...and general laughs. I have yet to be killed by one myself that I can recall.

[kuangmk11]

I think artillery needs a total rework. The damage for a single shell is too high, they are too easy to place and they are way too accurate.

They should get a "charge up" mechanic, the longer the spotter holds the designator on target, the more accurate the strike. Placing it fast like we have now would make the strike wildly inaccurate, Holding it for 5 or so seconds would get you the current accuracy.

More shells at less damage, 25 damage would be long tom w/ cluster ammo, which is what the animation looks like.

The AoE could possibly be increased and the smoke should go away. It should be very unlikely to hit a single mech with more than 1 shell.

[Mcchuggernaut]

kuangmk11, on 15 December 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

the smoke should go away.

It has to have some kind avoidance mechanic. Like the missile warning. Not necessarily smoke, but if it didn't have one people would get irritated. Maybe an "Airstrike incoming" or some such, but you wouldn't know exactly where.

[Andross Deverow]

I think the Arty and airstrikes are finally viable. There is no need for a nerf to these modules. The have advantages and disadvantages.

- They are pretty easily avoided if youre paying attention and arent in full zoom mode.
- The damage is now worth spending 40000 cbills.
- For the most part its splash damages.
- You have to use a valuable module slot.

They have a place in the game now and I hope PGI doesnt nerf them. Ive been caught with my pants down in my assault and tasted a arty strike... Its an eye opener, makes me pay alot closer attention to my surroundings.

I have also used arty or air strikes and I think they are a blast when you get one to work they way you intended. Ive killed 3-4 mechs in one shot I thought it was great. If people want to mob up they deserve it.

Regards.

Edited by Andross Deverow, 18 December 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 04 December 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Ahem! Only one artillery strike can be launched by each team at any given time. As such, I am extremely doubtful of your story.

That's anecdotal. It's not like hard coded features have ever stopped players from discussing their "factual data" on the forums before. I mean just look at the "Server is dying because I don't see the same players in my pug group" threads...

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 02 December 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Huh? No. The average player does like 200 damage in MWO in a PUG match. If you drop an artillery on clumped up enemy mechs you can easily do 200 damage to those mechs. Its way too potent for a module slot item.

I have no problem with strong artillery being in the game. The problem is the ease of accessibility and the fact you dont really have to give up anything to get it other than a module slot. The result is everyone spams them all over.

200 damage against 4-9 Mechs is not to potent.

[wanderer]

KHETTI, on 04 December 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Map River City, using cover to avoid the direct attention of a stalker, popping in and out taking snap shots at it with an AC20, doing serious damage to it.
Next thing 4 light mechs target me, from my position they are able to block me in between my cover, 2 front, 2 behind, ie they are using their mechs to ram and block me there, i'm pinned, they drop multiple arties on me, make a run for it just as they strike.
Result, from more or less full health, instant death.
This used to happen in MW4 with arty beacons, light mech drops arty at your feet and then bumps you so you can't escape.
I see arties used in every game, but using them this way is just plain lame.
Team cool down of 20 to 30 seconds after a beacon is placed.

PS @Wanderer, same guy from MW4? Uller with arty beacons? if so damn you were good with that thing.

Different Wanderer, but I appreciate anything that doesn't involve "point at target, alpha strike, repeat".

So I gotta disagree. Those lights were using their noggins to pin you in place and dumping a battery of artillery square on your noggin. Four of them. Because it's something different than shooting you up. Arty serves much the same purpose the -other- kind of artillery weapon, the LRM does. Stay moving or get hosed. It lacks the guided missile bit but trades that for more punch. Be flattered, they burned 4 arty strikes on you and made sure it'd kill you for good measure...and be ashamed that your team didn't see four frickin' lights doin the Humpty Dance on your 'Mech and not taking the obvious easy back shots on any of them. Getting five 'Mechs to take your one down is a good trade, long as someone else takes advantage of them directing that much firepower and time to defeat a single opponent by ganging up somewhere else and getting two-three back. Or heck, by dropping an arty marker on the spot yourself you'd have encouraged them to ****. Or someone ELSE could have had the brains to drop some support fire into the area to get them to shake loose long enough for you to move clear. Situations like that are what make an LRM boat pilot -drool-, light 'Mechs who aren't moving for diddly and begging to get the full salvo where the sun don't shine.

Now, if and when they give me Arrow IV capacity, we're gonna see some serious sheol in this house.

[LastPaladin]

Mcchuggernaut, on 01 December 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

How wide is the radius of an air/arty strike, and is the damage more severe the closer to the center of that radius that you are, or does anywhere inside that radius deal the same damage? Does facing in the direction of the epicenter of the strike protect your back?

Just from being the victim of them, I can say for sure it is not evenly spread. There are visible explosions within the radius, and the damage appears to be splash damage from those. The improved/mc versions of the strikes probably place those blasts in a tighter radius.

Mcchuggernaut, on 01 December 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

How come everyone seems to be using arty strikes over air strikes?

I think they do more damage, or so I've heard.

Mcchuggernaut, on 01 December 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Also, any tips from those already in the know on how best to use them?

There is pretty visible red spotter smoke that appears before the blast. Anyone seeing that who has half a brain will try to boogie before the blast hits. So, I've found you will have much more success if you can drop the smoke behind the enemy. Not only are you more likely to surprise them and actually hit them, but you maximize the chance of hitting the thin rear armor.

Another similar tactic (especially good for a light), is to get around behind a mech that is ridgehumping, shooting at your teammates. When they pop up to take some shots, then drop the smoke in the spot they are about to retreat to for cover and they will back right into the blast. Then they have only 2 real choices, absorb the strike, or move forward back into the line of your teammates' fire

[Prezimonto]

I don't know if it's my play style, mechs used, or maybe my ELO bracket but I don't see lots of arty. Maybe one every three matches. It's also rarely directed at me, or if it is I'm even less commonly unable to get away with more than some scratches in the paint.