15 replies to this topic

[Hex Pallett]

So, I heard there's gonna be changes with Dragon's torso very soon, so how about this: Give ti tiny tiny CT Rear and more LT/RT rear, so more CT armor can be moved to the front? After all we need some differentiation among chassis....

Disclaimer: I don't own a Dragon. Just wondering.

[YueFei]

Helmstif, on 01 December 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

So, I heard there's gonna be changes with Dragon's torso very soon, so how about this: Give ti tiny tiny CT Rear and more LT/RT rear, so more CT armor can be moved to the front? After all we need some differentiation among chassis....

Disclaimer: I don't own a Dragon. Just wondering.

I have driven Dragons. A nice hitbox change would be to extend the LT/RT up the sides of the big "beak", maybe a little more than halfway. That way, when you turn 90 degrees away from your enemies, they can't hit your CT easily.

This makes your side torsos more vulnerable, especially since many Dragon pilots run XL, but since most of the weapons are arm-mounted, you can turn at an angle and use unlocked arms to continue firing at an enemy while shielding an injured side torso, protecting it using the huge protruding "beak". The "cross-body" shooting.

This will let a skilled Dragon pilot absorb damage to all 3 torso sections, rather than just the CT absorbing everything.

[Khobai]

The Dragon could also use missile doors on its CT for the 10% damage reduction. Its not much but every little bit helps.

[Carrioncrows]

If you have a Dragon that doesn't have 8 armor in the back and 72 in the front then you are hurting yourself.

[John MatriX82]

Dragons side torsoes are already hittable from the sides (the protrusions of the "nose" are all side torso). Quite frankly I see very few possibilities that an hitbox change will make dragons better.

At high elo XL-engined dragons are chewed like there's no tomorrow, you don't even bother to reach for the CT, increasing their size will only force STD builds and then it's really better to run a Shadowhawk instead of it. Oh wait.. SHDs are already better..

[pbiggz]

John MatriX82, on 02 December 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Dragons side torsoes are already hittable from the sides (the protrusions of the "nose" are all side torso). Quite frankly I see very few possibilities that an hitbox change will make dragons better.

At high elo XL-engined dragons are chewed like there's no tomorrow, you don't even bother to reach for the CT, increasing their size will only force STD builds and then it's really better to run a Shadowhawk instead of it. Oh wait.. SHDs are already better..

The reason you rarely see dragons in comp matches is because what you have said simply isn't true. That ENTIRE nose is CT, that's what they're fixing.

Also they're giving it the "thong" treatment.

Also, just because SHDs are "better" doesn't mean that PGI should leave the dragon broken and useless.

Edited by pbiggz, 02 December 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

John MatriX82, on 02 December 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

increasing their size will only force STD builds and then it's really better to run a Shadowhawk instead of it. Oh wait.. SHDs are already better..

I love it when people claim that a chassis is better than another, especially when they are intended for different roles on the battle field, and they are wrong to boot. You couldent be more confused my good sir. I own all mechs 50 tons and up and there are competitive builds in every single chassis, incuding the Dragon.

[pbiggz]

well if we want to be technical, the dragon was SUPPOSED to be a replacement for the shadowhawk, but the SLDF rejected it, and it was quietly picked up by the draconis combine before the first succession war broke out, however, that is no excuse to make it inferior, which is what it is right now. the hit box fix should bring it back and collisions are critically important to making it useful. Anyone who argues against the hitbox fix is deluded.

[John MatriX82]

pbiggz, on 02 December 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

The reason you rarely see dragons in comp matches is because what you have said simply isn't true. That ENTIRE nose is CT, that's what they're fixing.

Aaand you're the one who is wrong



Do some shooting in testing ground and "what I'm saying" is correct The protruding sides (let's say nostrils) are indeed RT/LT.


They're probably going to do something like this as CarrionCrows suggested:


But they failed at making the upper pauldrons od the Awesome part of the arm hitboxes so I don't rely many hopes into them..

pbiggz, on 02 December 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Also, just because SHDs are "better" doesn't mean that PGI should leave the dragon broken and useless.

Of course not. In fact I hope they'll rework it, but hitboxes won't solve the issues, the thing must be scaled down in its size by a fair amount, right now it's too big as the quickdraw is talking about 60 tonners.

Alwrath, on 02 December 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I love it when people claim that a chassis is better than another, especially when they are intended for different roles on the battle field, and they are wrong to boot. You couldent be more confused my good sir. I own all mechs 50 tons and up and there are competitive builds in every single chassis, incuding the Dragon.

I hope weight restrictions will make Dragons more useful (I'd love it!), but even there, I'd take a QD or a SHD instead of it (saving also 5 tons for my team or lance).

Sure Dragons may had competitive builds, you could do 2PPC 1 GR when the meta allowd it (it still allows it), but tell me if it's worth to do that in a Dragon rather than.. anything else? Maybe with jump Jets?

You're talking to someone who was a "knight" in defense of the dragons many months ago, and used that thing in competitive myself even at the time when I was talked to use a gimped thing. Now you simply can't tell the same. I can't drop in that thing and do what I could do let's say 6 months ago.
I don't know you, but with the folks elo pits me against daily the Dragon is a really poor choice unfortunately.

Edited by John MatriX82, 02 December 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[pbiggz]

Ah, I misunderstood. Nevertheless those noses provide negligible cover for the fat fat CT. The Hitbox patch WILL make a difference. Additionally, Collisions (whenever we get them back) means dragon bowling, and THAT is undoubtedly the dragon's greatest weapon.

CW will also play a part in bringing back more obscure mechs. An example is indeed, the dragon, and the AS7-K atlas. Both mechs are Kurita exclusive so loyalist players will likely either be given these mechs or they will be available at a massively discounted price. This wont change comp play, where minmaxed builds that exploit the current meta always end up cropping up, but it will effect the normal matchmaking queues, and in a good way. More mech diversity is good.

[HammerSwarm]

Carrioncrows, on 02 December 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

If you have a Dragon that doesn't have 8 armor in the back and 72 in the front then you are hurting yourself.

I go 70-10 it's the psychological effect of a 2 digit number

[Enzane]

If this is what we get. it will be awesome.

Has anyone tested this out?

[sveno]

The DRG MUST retain its XL friendliness, that means hard to reach side torsos.

Don't forget that the max values are low for RT/LT.

I think the DRG is pretty good as it is; be carious with changes.

To repeat the important stuff:

The DRG MUST retain its XL friendliness; speed is life.

Thank you for your attention

<s>

edit:

Thinking of having larger arm hitzones worries me; loosing arms quick enough allready.
If you do damage management by twisting, you will have even more damage concentrating on the arms; mind that.
If arms max armor is raised - from where is that taken?

edit nr2: (love this mech)

mind that with presented solution, you will be more vulnerable from side high alpha strikes.
you will not sport your big pile of CT armor at that location.

Edited by sveno, 07 December 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

why not just cut the size of not to half or soemthing ?

[pbiggz]

actual model changes are time consuming because the entire model has to be scaled, re-rigged, retextured, and have all the doodads such as hatches and ladders attached. Apparently one mech takes about one month of art time to make.

[Enzane]

pbiggz, on 07 December 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

actual model changes are time consuming because the entire model has to be scaled, re-rigged, retextured, and have all the doodads such as hatches and ladders attached. Apparently one mech takes about one month of art time to make.

not to mention Hit box adjustment.

I think the Dragon is fine so far. Even without the new hitbox suggestion. They just need to re-add knockdowns.

Even in the "FLUFF" the Dragon was a Tackler. This thing was Designed to be HEAVY and FAST. which means it could knock down an Atlus! (and fall itself, but it could do it!) So let the dragon bowling come back! I mean it's easy enough to kill. So let us enjoy that small perk of being a foot ball player!

(PS: I know it was a glitch where the Dragon was set as an assault when dealing with knockdown, but it was so damn satisfying to knock over atluses and keep going. only to have a jenner blitz-jump into your face and knock you both down. I mean it was damn fun.)