229 replies to this topic

[King Arthur IV]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

What you are failing to realize is that if you run into a pilot of approximate skill in a Victor, they will wreck your Awesome.

Actually so will a pilot of approximate skill in a Cataphract or Shadow Hawk too.

what you fail to realize is this is not street fighter 1v1.

awesome has its strengths and weaknesses, its your job as a pilot to figure them out and use them to your advantage. you dont play to the enemy strengths in any situation...

one thing i see terribly wrong with alot of players is they bring short range to a sniper fight and insist on trading shots instead of re positioning. that is just one example of what is wrong with current player thinking.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 05 December 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Mycrus]

King Arthur IV, on 05 December 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

what you fail to realize is this is not street fighter 1v1.

no, this is streetfighter... last time i played was close to a decade ago... and i still managed to stomp a higher elo player...

Edited by Mycrus, 05 December 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Devil Fox]

Wow is this thread just for Forgotten 8th to troll in or something? Literally last few pages is just post after post from their members...

As to Victor's original post, from a perspective of competitive machines and builds, he actually hit the nail on the head particularly when you move it to the competitive 12's scene or 'meta' builds examination. Whilst any build or chassis may be good in one pilots hands, and not another... there are still fundamental game mechanics, weapon stat's, and variant hardpoint layouts that determine how a mech is useful ALONGSIDE the play style of both the machine and individual, individual skill & mastery of the game.

The fact that machines become more viable are because of meta evolution, which is the endless wave of buff and nerf... god the children on these forums scream it enough that it tends to come true... not the fact that they just have to adapt, change tactics or learn. Whilst this ISN'T a 1v1 street fighter, the general 'pug' population treat it as such with very few developing the knowledge of tactics for each map or the ability to read situations and respond appropriately on the field that many veteran players teach themselves, because they may take it to the next level of competition.

The latest spawn map changes are horrid, at least to a veteran of the game, but to those 'pugs' who just want action, their loving it right now. Hrmm why do I always type too much... anyhow no matter whether that bad chassis is in a lance or by it's lonesome, a weak variant on the battlefield is easily exploited to give the enemy the upper hand. Even staying at the back of a pack providing fire-support doesn't diminish the fact that a chassis with an inherent weakness will still get singled out, or stomped on fast. Take the Dragon for example, flat huge CT, popped within 2 Alpha's of any meta player and their CT is too hard to miss... or the Awesome, huge hitboxes mean you can either bust the XL most use, particularly the 9M, or you could easily torso or core.

What Victor has created is a analytical scoring system on how the current mech chassis and their variants hold up under the weight of choice. I've piloted and mastered every mech bar the Kintaro (came out broken) and the Orion, both shared the fault of huge CT on release and being over-shadowed by better battlemechs with better stats and hitboxes within their weight range at the time.

[Victor Morson]

Apostal, on 05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

The latest spawn map changes are horrid, at least to a veteran of the game, but to those 'pugs' who just want action, their loving it right now. Hrmm why do I always type too much..

I'm surprisingly OK with it; I hated it on paper. The reason? Really it ends up giving organized groups even more functionality in 12 mans, because you can now push from three different spots.

The key is knowing to regroup before you push too far. I've had a LOT of luck so far in pugs taking command and setting a rally way point at getting them to form up and push out as one unit; but I've also seen a lot of these lances just run off 4 against the world.

So really it's only really a big problem when people don't regroup, but then it's huge.

King Arthur IV, on 05 December 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

what you fail to realize is this is not street fighter 1v1.

awesome has its strengths and weaknesses, its your job as a pilot to figure them out and use them to your advantage. you dont play to the enemy strengths in any situation...

Weaknesses of the Awesome:
Poor Hitboxes including a wide "Barrel" chest
Poor Hardpoint Loadout on most models
Poor Engine Cap outside of 9M
No Jumping Capability
Low Slung Guns
Energy & Missile Heavy makes even the stock configs violate Ghost Heat
Among the worst heroes, an inferior 9M

Strengths:
- Named after an amazing TT mech
- Somewhat resembles said 'mech visually

Clearly, I just need to learn why the Awesome is somehow more useful than the Victor at anything... ?

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 December 2013 - 04:42 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Tekadept, on 05 December 2013 - 01:50 AM, said:

Soooo what do you do with the other 3 fingers and 2 thumbs??

Look behind you. See that red smoke? The artillery landing on your head.

Also you use BOTH THUMBS to manage your firing groups? Are you playing with your feet?

Tekadept, on 05 December 2013 - 01:50 AM, said:

that is a waste of potential! what about a scroll wheel?? am i allowed to use that in your universe or is that not competitive??

Streamlined and easy to use is not a "waste of potential."

The simple fact is if you generally need more than two firing groups, you are going to end up losing damage potential trying to manage it all.

The bottom line is you might have a 1 second window at a cored side torso. You need as much firepower as possible on that spot RIGHT NOW. Not half second chain fire later, not staggered over 5 groups. All of it, NOW.

Also again, finally, primary =/= all.

For example on my old meta Cataphract from the day - 2 PPC, 1 Gauss, 2 ML, I'd run:

Group 1 - Gauss
Group 2 - PPC
Group 3 - MedLas
Group 4 - Gauss + Medlas (Arm Mounted Guns)
Group 5 - Staggered PPC
Group 6 - Gauss + 1 PPC

Obviously I don't run that one anymore, but my point is, 99% of the time - two buttons. Doesn't mean I couldn't setup some other options.

Apostal, on 05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Wow is this thread just for Forgotten 8th to troll in or something? Literally last few pages is just post after post from their members...

They appear on a crusade to prove the pretty much entirely false statement that "any 'mech can be good." They are right to a degree but when you are talking even skill levels, the inferior junk always loses. That's the part they don't want to accept, apparently.

[Mycrus]

Apostal, on 05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Wow is this thread just for Forgotten 8th to troll in or something? Literally last few pages is just post after post from their members...

yah, we got tired of trolling you-know-who...

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Are you playing with your feet?

a bit of ADHD?

haven't we been through this already... you need a foot pedal to play the meta... it shoots your AC+PPC 1-button mech while keeping unnecessary wobble to your aim with your 100dpi / 1000hz mouse...

gg close... really.

[Victor Morson]

Mycrus, on 05 December 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

yah, we got tired of trolling you-know-who...

So since you are all from a unit, let's make this interesting. How do you say we scrim you guys, in all your Dragon & Awesome glory, in a streamed match? This coming Sunday would work for us. If not, perhaps next Wednesday or Friday. We can add the video to the OP.

Come on, guys. Show us those awesome Awesomes.

Bring your commandos, your Hunchbacks and your Kintaros too, we'll have several highlanders and some Shadow Hawks waiting for you.

Bonus points if you not only bring junk chassis, but your "advanced" builds that take multiple groups. All you have to let us do is record the slaught-- *cough* I mean fight.

You in?

Also:

http://www.forgotten...t3s-dragons-l6r

hahahahhahaha. One of you guys thinks there's OP Awesome builds. Oh dear lord.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 December 2013 - 05:03 AM.

[Tekadept]

Apostal, on 05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Wow is this thread just for Forgotten 8th to troll in or something? Literally last few pages is just post after post from their members...

When something is wonky something has to be said , plus nobody else is active on these forums so yeah, guess its just us.. Nice of you to pop by

Apostal, on 05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

As to Victor's original post, from a perspective of competitive machines and builds, he actually hit the nail on the head particularly when you move it to the competitive 12's scene or 'meta' builds examination. Whilst any build or chassis may be good in one pilots hands, and not another... there are still fundamental game mechanics, weapon stat's, and variant hardpoint layouts that determine how a mech is useful ALONGSIDE the play style of both the machine and individual, individual skill & mastery of the game.

i THOUGHT you were gonna go full tryhard then, but then you pulled back a little, you manged to say it was usefull rather thena must also atributing the invidival skill, Victor, doesnt beleive that, Pilot skill be damned you must bring the mechs he says is da Cheese

Apostal, on 05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

The latest spawn map changes are horrid, at least to a veteran of the game, but to those 'pugs' who just want action, their loving it right now.

Man I musn't be a veteran to the game then? it aint that bad bro

Apostal, on 05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Hrmm why do I always type too much...

Yeh i wondered that too LOL hehe

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Also you use BOTH THUMBS to manage your firing groups? Are you playing with your feet?

Funny you should mention that i actually do have a 3 button foot pedal.. am I doing that wrong??

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

The simple fact is if you generally need more than two firing groups, you are going to end up losing damage potential trying to manage it all.

The bottom line is you might have a 1 second window at a cored side torso. You need as much firepower as possible on that spot RIGHT NOW. Not half second chain fire later, not staggered over 5 groups. All of it, NOW.

If you can't do that with more then 2 firing groups you are the one doing it wrong.

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

They appear on a crusade to prove the pretty much entirely false statement that "any 'mech can be good." They are right to a degree but when you are talking even skill levels,

If you cant make any mech at least reasonably good you are not piloting it the best way, it's not the mech itself is bad, you just haven't learn to adapt to the mech.

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

the inferior junk always loses. That's the part they don't want to accept, apparently.

Dont worry Victor despite this I still accept you..

Edited by Tekadept, 05 December 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[Mycrus]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

So since you are all from a unit, let's make this interesting. How do you say we scrim you guys, in all your Dragon & Awesome glory, in a streamed match? This coming Sunday would work for us. If not, perhaps next Wednesday or Friday. We can add the video to the OP.

my comstar pugs will just kintaro you




if stars align and i don't need to do ish amma going to be dropping 12s in a dragon this saturday AM... see you!

[Victor Morson]

Mycrus, on 05 December 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

my comstar pugs will just kintaro you

You guys do realize that we missed a drop in a league and that's why we ran straight in at full speed ungrouped, right? We were trying to not be jerks and just walk off the map.

Had the map been much larger, that's what we'd had to do anyway. River City we generally suicide-blitz on just because it's small and it sucks to suicide for the other team.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 December 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[Tekadept]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

You guys do realize that we missed a drop in a league and that's why we ran straight in at full speed ungrouped, right? We were trying to not be jerks and just walk off the map.
Had the map been much larger, that's what we'd had to do anyway. River City we generally suicide-blitz on just because it's small and it sucks to suicide for the other team.

SO you guys are the kinda guys that do that?? I thought that was a myth and nobody would be that dezgra to do that.. Serious?

[Mycrus]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

You guys do realize that we missed a drop in a league and that's why we ran straight in at full speed ungrouped, right? We were trying to not be jerks and just walk off the map.

Had the map been much larger, that's what we'd had to do anyway. River City we generally suicide-blitz on just because it's small and it sucks to suicide for the other team.

sure Vic, i believe you.. honest..

[Victor Morson]

Tekadept, on 05 December 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

SO you guys are the kinda guys that do that?? I thought that was a myth and nobody would be that dezgra to do that.. Serious?

You guys really don't play much, do you?

When you've been dropping for 5 hours straight because PGI refuses to put in a lobby, and you need to get drops done, that's what has to happen. Period. Every single unit does it out of necessity, nobody likes to.

[Mycrus]

Tekadept, on 05 December 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

SO you guys are the kinda guys that do that?? I thought that was a myth and nobody would be that dezgra to do that.. Serious?

it's the meta thing to do..

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

You guys really don't play much, do you?

When you've been dropping for 5 hours straight because PGI refuses to put in a lobby, and you need to get drops done, that's what has to happen. Period. Every single unit does it out of necessity, nobody likes to.

i did say i believe you Vic... we ran into another "suiciding" team too that day...

[Victor Morson]

Mycrus, on 05 December 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

sure Vic, i believe you.. honest..

Come scrim us. Put your money where your mouth is on the 'mechs. You were obviously around at PM time at least one night, what days and times work for you?

Let's get this video of posted in the OP. If you don't want to fight a proper scrim against a serious group, it doesn't say much for your cause.

Mycrus, on 05 December 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

i did say i believe you Vic... we ran into another "suiciding" team too that day...

Likely our opponents, if not someone else's. A lot of teams dropping that day.

[Mycrus]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Come scrim us. Put your money where your mouth is on the 'mechs. You were obviously around at PM time at least one night, what days and times work for you?

We play GMT+8 (that's kinda where asia and australia is located), in fact we are ready to scrimm now... synch dropping in 3, 2 ,1

seriously... i said saturday AM if the wifey don't give me chores to do..

[Tekadept]

Sadly for me

[Victor Morson]

Tekadept, on 05 December 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Sadly for me

Well we apparently crossed over one Saturday evening. When is the next day you guys cross over to somewhere in the middle? I'm really looking forward to making this video for this and future threads.

I'm thinking for the soundtrack of a slow motion montage of all the Dragons exploding under AC/5 barrages.

Since we aren't likely to meet an agreement, I give you this video. The arguably best unit in the game versus a bunch of pugtastic 'mechs.



Watch this whole thing. You could learn much from it.

Mycrus, on 05 December 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

a barbershop advert, really?

It's not my fault you have ads unblocked on youtube.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 December 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Mycrus]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

I'm thinking for the soundtrack of a slow motion montage of all the Dragons exploding under AC/5 barrages.

a barbershop advert, really?

[giganova]

Another one of these threads. I've always found tier and rating systems particularly unhelpful, especially when it comes to cars, videogames, and mechs. It really should be stated in the first part of the OP that this list is an opinion and subjective.

From best to worst, the ranking threads are ranked as follows;
Best Mech Ranking List - 80Bit
Average Mech Ranking List - Victor Morson
Worst Mech Ranking List - MavRCK

See what I did there?