55 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

So today we have news that PGI is planning a new line of modules that work on one specific Mechs.

Like a Scout and a Brawling module. When equipped the module pays out rewards for performing the role it is named after.

Brawling probably pays out C-bills and xp for every 30 seconds you are within 250m of 2 or more enemies or something. Scouting probably pays for being the first person to target lock an enemy mech.

Now here is the obvious thing, the big thing.

While most lights will get the Scout module, not all of them may. You may well find yourself in disagreement with PGI as to if a Jaeger is a Brawler or not.

[xengk]

I think they will work like bonus multiplier.
Example; scout module will provide 1.5x multiplier to all TAG/NARC, spot and UAV bonus, brawler module will provide 1.5x multiplier to component destruction, kill assist and damage->Cbill conversion.

[YueFei]

A scout module should allow limited through-terrain targeting, so you can keep tabs on enemies without exposing yourself to getting splattered.

A brawler module could include some kind of damage mitigation or damage reduction. Possibly a smoke shell drop to cover an advance.

A sniper module could be enhanced optics, much like the old heat vision which made it super easy to spot enemies in the distance.

A fire support module could be one in which direct-fired LRMs take a *very* high flight arc, and are true fire-and-forget weapons, which do not require maintaining a lock-on. This allows an LRM user to lock, fire, and then turn away from the enemy, so he can defensively pilot instead of face-tanking everything. The high arc rewards him for risking himself to the enemy's direct-fire weapons, allowing his missiles to arc over most enemy cover. Indirect-fired LRMs would retain the current flight arc and mechanics.

Note that if a scout module allows limited thru-terrain targeting (shorter ranged than within-LOS targeting), it synergizes with LRM fire support. The scout doesn't need to unduly expose himself to getting one-or-two-shotted by enemy heavies/assaults, but is still able to target the enemy so the LRM fire support can target and launch. The enemy can still stay safe from the LRMs by hugging cover, but it prevents them from moving away from that cover, keeping them pinned down. They can cross into the open and take the punishment if they deem it worthwhile to change to a new position. Or they can call in their own lights/mediums to find and chase off the enemy light that's locking them up.

[Whatzituyah]

I am not a big fan of this idea just because I can take down some bigger mechs with ez as a light mech and that makes me a brawler so I am forced to have a scout module?

[Alistair Winter]

You must be kidding me. If you think this is role warfare, then we have two very different ideas of what role warfare means.

In my mind, role warfare means: different mechs have different mutually dependent roles that reward cooperation to achieve synergy.

Role warfare does not mean: an arbitrary bonus income to artificially stimulate a certain style of gameplay that is not really conducive for victory.

Unless they change the fundamental roles and interaction between said roles, this changes nothing. It's like the TAG bonus. It was supposed to give some incentive to light mechs tagging for their team. In reality, it just meant that every LRM boat would bring their own TAG and light mechs were still useless.

And UAV, artillery strike and air strike was supposed to make light mechs more viable. Well, it gives them something to do for about 20 seconds, which is all the time it takes for them to use their consumables. Then the show is over, and they just spent 120,000 c-bills. If they were able to use those things repeatedly, it would actually give them a role, but... no such luck.

If they're going to give a significant bonus for spotting the enemy first, then how does that make light mechs useful? If you're playing on River city, you already know where the enemy is going 5 seconds into the match. Having a light mech go and target every enemy momentarily during the beginning of the match to collect C-bills doesn't make a difference for the team. Same on Alpine, same on Caustic, same on Frozen City, and virtually every other map in the game.

My prediction: this will not lead to role warfare. I hope I'm wrong. I really do.

[Snoopy]

After checking the Dev post... I feel they (PGI) has no idea how the can achieve the original concept they praised during the Founder program.

Now they try to implement "something" to provide RW.

Imho modules could support Roles, but are not suited to be the Role. Modules have to be considered "end game" and are expensive. A Role should be available for everybody, right at the first match ever played.

[Viges]

Snoopy, on 03 December 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Imho modules could support Roles, but are not suited to be the Role. Modules have to be considered "end game" and are expensive. A Role should be available for everybody, right at the first match ever played.

And modules will support roles - you can call them anything else to not be worried so much.

Quote

We are also looking at chassis/role specific module slots being added to BattleMechs so that they do not occupy general module slots which can be considered as generic modules. As an example, players who equip a specialized Scouting module may receive higher XP/CB gains when performing scouting actions and players who equip a specialized Brawler module may receive higher XP/CB gains when performing support actions etc.

Edited by Viges, 03 December 2013 - 03:00 AM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Coming Soon ™ lol

[Roadbeer]

What's all this then? Did I miss a dev post somewhere? Where is the post on these modules of which you speak?

[Khobai]

ill believe it when I see it

[C E Dwyer]

its good but I don't think it should be modules, as the lights and possibly mediums will be punished by having to foit modules for bonuses they should have had from Day one

[Tezcatli]

Yayyyy. More money sink holes. So I have to grind the C-bills and the GXP for these, if I want to make more money?

[Roadbeer]

Still waiting for a link, or it's not true.

[Redshift2k5]

Roadbeer, on 03 December 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

What's all this then? Did I miss a dev post somewhere? Where is the post on these modules of which you speak?

Roadbeer, on 03 December 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Still waiting for a link, or it's not true.

http://mwomercs.com/...date-dec-22013/

Ctrl-F for the word role

Edited by Redshift2k5, 03 December 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Redshift2k5, on 03 December 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...date-dec-22013/

Ctrl-F for the word role

Thanks, totally glazed over that part in the sea of information we had dumped on us yesterday.

[Sybreed]

They monetized role warfare. ... wow.

[Roadbeer]

Sybreed, on 03 December 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

They monetized role warfare. ... wow.

Not seeing that at all.
Nowhere does it say that these will be an MC purchase, so it's no different than any other module.
You make an investment in the module to increase your revenue potential.

So unless you're of the school that believes that any item that isn't standard equipment on a mech, from small lasers to XL Engines is a monetization scheme, this is NOT monetizing RW.

[Karyudo ds]

Cathy, on 03 December 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

its good but I don't think it should be modules, as the lights and possibly mediums will be punished by having to foit modules for bonuses they should have had from Day one

Punished how? These "day one" modules don't appear to be compatible with standard modules at all and you're only getting bonus points for certain actions so far. It's like I might get an option between extra Spotting points, or extra points for indirect fire. That specifically wouldn't punish me much since I would only likely be doing one of the two most of a game. Of course we only really got a pair of generic examples so that might not be the case but as long as it's an extra point-fine-tuning slot I don't see the harm.

Sort of wish there were more direct in-game benefits, but I suppose that's what a good build is all about.

[Sybreed]

Roadbeer, on 03 December 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Not seeing that at all.
Nowhere does it say that these will be an MC purchase, so it's no different than any other module.
You make an investment in the module to increase your revenue potential.

So unless you're of the school that believes that any item that isn't standard equipment on a mech, from small lasers to XL Engines is a monetization scheme, this is NOT monetizing RW.

No, I'll explain what I meant:

A lot of people's definition of role warfare was "A Raven 3L is primarily a scout, a Catapult a support, etc" and we wanted the game to reward people playing their role correctly by increasing their chances of winning. Right now, you can't have much role warfare as long as NARC is useless, TAG is meh-ish and requires an energy hardpoint, and mostly you can't have role warfare when an Atlas D-DC makes a better LRM support than a Catapult, in other words you can' t have role warfare with the actual hardpoint system and lack of flavour throughout each mech. It's one issue, but bad mechanics (NARC) are also another reason why we don't have role warfare.

What people asked was to give incentives to use different tools, not just big weapons, in order to win a game. It's cool that they release modules for scouting, but as long as NARC and TAG are rubbish, I just don't see the point. I think Alistair made the same point, but with better wording (and I can't do better right now as I'm in a hurry writing this at work).

In other words, they're just releasing new modules to add another money sink in the game. There won't be more role warfare now that there's a scouting or a support module that increases EXP and C-Bill through certain actions. It'll be exactly the same as before.


So, anyway, it was much clearer in my head an hour ago but I wasn't able to post. Damnit...

edit: You want role warfare done right (well, better at least), look at Hawken, EVE Online or hell, even DOTA. Here, there is no role warfare as maps don't facilitate doing different roles and all mechs can overlap each other by having unlimited customization

Edited by Sybreed, 03 December 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Roadbeer]

It's an incentive, not a requirement. I have absolutely no problem using the mechs you described and many others in the role I build them for, and quite effectively. If I want to get a cookie for doing what I was going to do with my mech anyway, then I buy the module, or not... whichever.

All this is doing is giving a carrot to those who have an issue wrapping their CoD brains around the concept of role warfare, first by taxing them for their lack of creativity, then giving them a bonus for being a good sheep.