44 replies to this topic

[Randalf Yorgen]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

how about putting in 6-9 spawn points per side that are randomly populated at the start of the game. This would simulate being "Dropped" onto the Planet and would, in some situation cause a team to need to regroup before pushing forward or cause the team to have to reroute entirely to get to teh objective. Lots that can be done here, don't let this dynamic event fall short and become just something else that is a static bore in three weeks

[Randalf Yorgen]

Aleksanteri Bekker, on 03 December 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Its hard for me to take this thread seriously. Granted, a lot of PUGs have a herd "tried and true" mentality, but some of these things never happening to you are inconceivable.



Really, if you've never scouted or tried to find alternate avenues, thats your own fault. Stop following the herd. Spreading the spawn points should not be the only way you've explored areas you never knew existed. B brings up your minimap so you can see whats available.



In what map have you had combat where you previously never had action before? Yeah, a lot of times you have a good idea of where the bulk of the action is, but I can say that even on big maps like Alpine Peaks, I've had some action in every single area. I never needed to spawn on the other side of the map as my team in order to see different things. (And yes, Caustic valley starts one lance 2 squares away from the rest of the team, isolated. Brilliant.)



This is bad. There are countless other braindead shooters you could play where the action is immediate and fun. Having no chance to organize and set up is bad for gameplay because the actual combat is still meaningless. Now snipers don't get the set up time, even scouts don't get to do as much scouting because the enemy lances are closer and thus can take out your scouts quicker.



You mean the patient game? Being smart enough to not just run in guns blazing and die? Where you want to be thinking about your position rather than just start shooting when you spawn in the map?



That you've never made a "tough decision" or "gotten surprise attacked".. ever? Seriously? You've never been flanked or ambushed? Have you played only since today or something?

Judging from why you like these changes, it sounds like you've:

1. Never scouted
2. Never sought to flank/cap/distract
3. Followed the Herd
4. Hated having to be patient and let the battle flow, instead just zerging the enemy
5. Played very few games (never been "surprised attack")

Sorry, the problem wasn't with the game, the problem was with you. Call of Duty is over there ---->

I like a lot of what you said but I like how the spread is more accurate of how you would land if you were dropped from ships to the surface of the planet. Hopefully in Attack/Defend mode the defending team will get a tight start zone and the attackers will be spread out across half the map. A dropship under fire trying to insert mechs onto the planets surface wouldn't be the most stable of platforms and there would be a fair spread.

I've had battles all over most maps, I like the top of the mountains behind the EPSI radio tower on Alpine. If I get up there I can target the enemy set up on that ridge and force them to send one or two mechs up to try and drive me off. If I see them coming there are a few places I can quickly get to and lay in wait for them and get the first few shots off in the battle. Lots of fun. Saddly though 80% of the players only ever fight on 60% of the maps making the game only 50% as much fun as it could be. Diminishing returns suck.

[Levon K]

This was a great move. The game needed to be shaken up big time.

An interesting game is a fun game.

[Kotzi]

Well unpredictable? They will always be at the opposite side of the map. This better been implemented with voice, loadouts to choose and/or tonnage limit.

[Urdasein]

Amsro, on 03 December 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

This is the PEAK of ScatterWarrior, the smart team regroups all 12 mechs to slaughter the 3 enemy lances which have all split up due to distant starting points.

Its actually quite funny to see and also disheartening when your on the ScatterWarrior team.

THIS

Before, it was boring dropping with too many lights. Now, dropping -even with mediums- when you are an assault = leaved behind = jenner meat.

And this is also why i'm stopping to play MWO for a while.

It was quite boring with the matchmaker and the mono-weapon-system (40 pinpoint or nothing)

But now, playing scatterwarrior. No thanx.

Edited by loupgaroupoilu, 04 December 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[Geek Verve]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

Sure, but whereas before there were maybe two logical courses of action for the entire team, Now there are a couple of different options *for each lance*. That's around six different possible approaches, when landing on a particular map.

I really disliked the changes at first, but they grew on me very quickly. At this point I can definitely see where they were coming from with it, and I like it.

loupgaroupoilu, on 04 December 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Before, it was boring dropping with too many lights. Now, dropping -even with mediums- when you are an assault = leaved behind = jenner meat.

And this is also why i'm stopping to play MWO for a while.

It was quite boring with the matchmaker and the mono-weapon-system (40 pinpoint or nothing)

But now, playing scatterwarrior. No thanx.

Wow, use the exceptions as the rules much?

I don't usually resort to this line of reasoning, but I think it appropriate here - learn to play. Every mech has downsides to offset their advantages. It's not the game's fault that you refuse to do anything to counter them. Get left behind by your lance? Tough break. That was a bad team. You're going to get stuck with them sometimes. Most players are more than willing to hang back with you, if you just remind them that you're speed-challenged. I love hanging around an Atlas. Guess who *always* gets shot at first?

Edited by Geek Verve, 04 December 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Hillslam]

I LOVE THE NEW SPAWN POINTS!

Thank you PGI. Seriously.

Don't listen to the whiners. They're like a basketball team that only knows how to play choreographed 2minute drills. Preplanned, optimized dance routines. Yawn.

Love the potential of dropping in 3 different places. Love the potential to drop right in the face of the enemy. Guess what? Combat IS random. Adapt. Overcome.

LOVE IT.

MOAR of this!

Edited by Hillslam, 04 December 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Dunovan]

Instead of random spawn points, how about about spawn choices, like dropping mechs onto the map, click one of the available spots to land and it randomly drops you around that spawn point. Would be a bit more realistic than just popping up in the middle next to the enemy. That is more like gladiator fights as opposed to what I thought was the vision of battletech / mechwarrior.

[Wildstreak]

So, played 4 games earlier, here is what I saw.

Crimson Strait - didn't really see anything wrong with the drops.

Forest Snow - didn't really see anything wrong with the drops.

Caustic - WTF? Conquest and I wind up right near Eps instead of Sigma. I spent a few seconds thinking the whole map was off. Interesting start.

Alpine - Assault, my team is in the sheltered base at F11 (using smurfy maps for reference). Me, a Phract and Stalker Lance mates start there, the other 9 wind up around J12 where Kappa would be in Conquest.
I was easy for me in my Locust to catch up to the team but the other 2 kind of got left behind, I felt bad for them.

[Vegetal Maldito]

I like the spawns, just one problem though. I always end up in Charlie lance, very rarely on Bravo, so I will always spawn on the same spot anyway....

Oh, and one of the teams on Caustic is way closer to Theta than the other.

[Araara]

Several comp teams were discussing the changes (Swords of Kentares, Steel Jaguar Gaming and 228th) and it's not pretty at all for the competitive side of things.

The new spawns essentially screwed up competitive play big time.

1) We cant choose which lance/player spawns to which spots.

2) Some maps are just ****** up, tourmaline desert where 1 side spawns with no cover and the other side spawns at sniping point?

3) Which leads me to this tidbit : you guys remember the "how we create map" official thread? How maps are CAREFULLY DESIGNED to have balance on both sides by making both sides having cover, attack angles and etc.

Well, you just completely ****** that up by having "asymmetrical" advantage locations on some maps :

River City right side gets citadel

Frozen City south side gets ridge

Tourmaline Desert east side gets sniping vantage points and left side gets stuck on open field in shooting range from start

Alpine peaks you have west top side stuck in the middle of open and bottom right side stuck to go forward. (not really any advantage on any sides here but it forces pathway)


Also in most maps, most lances are STUCK moving in only 1 or 2 ways, forcing a brawl, because the lance are SO ******* spread out.

Sure, if we could choose which lance spawns in which area, thatd be better but its not comp game breaking right now. What's game breaking is that by having us already spread out and pushed FORWARD at opposite ends of maps, you are essentially cutting off several strategies available and early game positioning maneuvers.



edit : im not saying these changes are bad, spread out the lances has great strategic value if you COULD choose where to spawn. It's just badly implemented and should have been tested first on the test servers and had actual feedback.

it's also pretty nice for pug games.

Edited by Araara, 04 December 2013 - 09:42 PM.

[Sephlock]

7) Died due to the one saving grace of pugger groups (the herd instinct) giving way to Scooby Doo Syndrome.



Typically the two are in balance, like atomic forces.... but once you spawn apart, and so unevenly...

THE TEAM FLIES APART!



8) Wandered off the map to a place that you used to be able to go to and which was restricted for no good reason, or which looks like you should be able to go to but you cannot for no good reason.

I forsee an epic noobocaust in the weeks to come due to the above.

Edited by Sephlock, 07 December 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Hexenhammer]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

Hopefully this will be corrected.

[Ezazel]

Yes, the spawn point change was good! This game has few maps and running the same standard routes as a 12 mech blob really started to feel boring. New spawn points breathed some new life in the game. Now the matches are more unpredictable and that is positive, even if you lose a match because of it. Just remember that sometimes you will also win because of it so it balances out.

Some people are complaining that you can easily lose a lance and get steam rolled. To them I say try to think positively, now you can destroy an enemy lance quickly.

I like these changes because they force people to adapt to new situations. It makes people to rely more on themselves and their lance mates, instead of the all mighty blob.

I hope there will be changes in the future too to keep things more interesting, spawn changes and new game modes, not to mention cw... Some kind of dynamic spawning system would be nice. (By the way we still need more maps, the number of maps needs to be at least doubled.)

[Diego Angelus]

I hate new spawns espeacially when I play alone team gets split and othercrap. I won't say thank you because quality of my matches droped down considerbly.

[Geek Verve]

I've made it a point to play my assault mechs almost exclusively that past couple of nights (as have a couple of friends in my group). It's really just not been a problem. We rarely (if ever?) got jumped out on our own.

On Terra, of course, we immediately turn and head for the rest of our team. So what? Every map can't be tailor made for every mech. Some mechs will have a specific approach to certain maps. I have zero problem with that.

[Diego Angelus]

good for you if you like to fight two lances vs one

[MadcatX]

I'm loving it.

Like everything there's room for improvement, but this is a good start.

[Kjudoon]

strategies are starting to evolve... but I'm still grumpy.

[FireSlade]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

How much would it tax the current infrastructure to implement a more dynamic map spawn system? Having a bunch of different spawn points would really shake things up in game and make it just that more enjoyable. If it is not on the drawing board it might be a good suggestion to bring up at the next meeting.