24 replies to this topic

[Praehotec8]

For those who bring up what is "canon" in BT books and lore, I would like to point out one thing, as I read the Gray Death Legion Saga (for the first time I might add):

The Jumpship, Invidious, has a MICROFICHE reader in its lounge.

I think canon might need a bit of modernizing, since probably half of the people who use these forums probably have never even seen a microfiche reader. =D

[Karl Streiger]

There is a problem with "modernization"
For example - take that new rusty hero jenner -> 4 missile launchers.
Today there are few weapons that have that good ratio between weight of the weapon and damage potential.
Given the weight of 8tons +4t for ammunition-> say that jenner may have 12t for missiles and launcher
Duno - if it is enough for 4 BGH-109 Tomahawk Cruise Missiles -> but you know the range of those missiles.

Or you place something like 8 AGM-64 Mavericks into the launchers...

However -> those missiles would be more as capable to vaporize any target at extreme range.
So Mechwarrior or BattleTech would only be played at a strategic level

[Praehotec8]

I was mostly trying to be funny...I mean, really....a microfiche reader? Nothing dates the book quite so much as that sentence did.

[Karl Streiger]

Praehotec8, on 04 December 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

I was mostly trying to be funny...I mean, really....a microfiche reader? Nothing dates the book quite so much as that sentence did.

Or the Kilobyte Helms Memory Core - well - at least it would mean in the future they know to use memory more effective.

But hey - its SicFi of the 80s...and its always great to read -

Edited by Karl Streiger, 04 December 2013 - 01:56 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

I am perfectly fine leaving this genre as a brawn over brains cold war era bigger is better game.... When I watch movies like K-19, Red October, and Space: 2010, that's how I imagine the insides of these dropships and tech to look like... Futuristic theory applied to cold war era tech.

[Skylarr]

Quote

COMPUTERS



“Computers sure make life easier, but they won’t do the job for
you.” —KP

“Humans err. But it takes a computer to really malf things up.” —JH

Computers are an indispensable part of daily life, relied on for their ability to input and store data and to perform calculations far faster than any human. Most personal computers are designed for multiple uses, but many have specific functions, such as compads and telescans, which are designed simply for download-and-review functions, versus the ubiquitous noteputers and personal computers nearly everyone over the age of 12 likely owns on any civilized world today.

For diagnostics and maintenance support, the Descartes computer series is still the technician’s tool of choice, though nothing beats a good scanalyzer for scientifi c and forensic work. The engineer’s portable console is actually more of a control interface, which uses cartridges to emulate any control system on a large spacecraft—vital for overrides should a bridge system be taken out of action. Another notable control interface (albeit not available for general sale) is the Clans’ Enhanced Imaging Display, a modular HUD-style system based on the first Star League’s Brain Wire program.

And for the security buff , there is the verigraph scanner/reader. Designed to boost any existing form of encryption for ultimate security, this handy gem embeds the genetic code of a file or message recipient’s DNA, to ensure that he—and only he—gets the precious data within. As a technique nearly impossible to forge, ComStar has relied on verigraphs for centuries to secure messages for VIPs in just about every walk of life.


ITEM.....................................EQUIPMENT......COST......WEIGHT
..............................................RATING
COMPAD...............................D/A-C-B/A.........150........200 G
PORTABLE; REQUIRES MICRO POWER PACK 0.1 PPH, TEXT READER ONLY

NOTEPUTER..........................C/A-B-A/A.........500........500 G
PORTABLE; REQUIRES MICRO POWER PACK 0.1 PPH

PERSONAL COMPUTER........C/A-B-A/A.........250....3 KG
DESKTOP; REQUIRES POWER PACK OR PLUG 1 PPH

POCKET TRANSCRIBER........C/A-B-B/A.........200.....500 G
PORTABLE; REQUIRES MICRO POWER PACK 0.5 PPH; SPEECHTOTEXT TRANSCRIPTION
AND PLAYBACK ONLY

TELESCAN............................C/A-A-A/A..........100......750 G
PORTABLE; REQUIRES MICRO POWER PACK 0.1 PPH; REQUIRES WORKING SATELLITE
NET TO DOWNLOAD AND PLAY LOCAL NEWS AND WEATHER FEEDS.

Note: PPH = Power Points per Hour; PPT = Power Points per (5-second) Turn

Excerpt taken from Time Of War page 303

[Mechteric]

Maybe they still use Microfiche for very sensitive material, since HDD's and CD's have much more limited lifespan. Heck, even tape storage is making a comeback.

http://www.economist...solution-modern

[dal10]

Praehotec8, on 04 December 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

For those who bring up what is "canon" in BT books and lore, I would like to point out one thing, as I read the Gray Death Legion Saga (for the first time I might add):

The Jumpship, Invidious, has a MICROFICHE reader in its lounge.

I think canon might need a bit of modernizing, since probably half of the people who use these forums probably have never even seen a microfiche reader. =D

Microfiche could be the name of an entirely new kind of data storage in the spacey future.

[Karl Streiger]

dal10, on 05 December 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Microfiche could be the name of an entirely new kind of data storage in the spacey future.

That could be indeed be possible.
I mean there was once a thing that had the same name


vs

[CyclonerM]

And don't forget

vs

[dal10]

Edited by dal10, 05 December 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[RedDragon]

You asked for it

Edited by RedDragon, 05 December 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[RedDragon]

The man or the mech?

[Nebfer]

Praehotec8, on 04 December 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

For those who bring up what is "canon" in BT books and lore, I would like to point out one thing, as I read the Gray Death Legion Saga (for the first time I might add):

The Jumpship, Invidious, has a MICROFICHE reader in its lounge.

I think canon might need a bit of modernizing, since probably half of the people who use these forums probably have never even seen a microfiche reader. =D

Well like many long running series written by many a author things can be a bit inconsistent. To be fair William Keith redeems himself in later books like so

Tactics of Duty Chapter 21 said:

...in order to keep the peace. He'd brought with him several memory clips filled with hundreds of gigabytes of data, with detailed operational orders for the Legion to deploy from New Edinburgh spaceport, secure New Edinburgh, and then initiate martial law...

Not to bad AFAIK several can be any any from 3 to 10ish, and hundreds can be any where from 100 to 999, So one can be looking at any where from 10ish to 320ish gigabytes per "Memory clip".

Many of the latter books gigabytes and terabytes are commonly mentioned data sizes
Jihad Hot spots Terra mentions 100 Yottabyte storage centers (that's 100 trillion terabytes).

Also The 3025 era House Steiner book mentions they have computers/data centers that have the capacity of 100 billion books (~1 billion books = ~1 petabyte (1 book @ 500 pages or 1 megabyte per book, 2 kilobytes per page)).

[Tyrnea Smurf]

And this is simply yet another example as to why you never want to use current, or even at the time cutting edge computer/technological terms as in the not to distant future from the time of writing it will make that future story seam stuck back in the stone ages by a contemporary reader/audience.

I recall some of the writers for star Trek The Next Generation were concerned about using anything like a real term in its computer jargon, for fear that within a few years it would sound ridiculously dated, their solution was to invent a term "kiloquads' that could be used in place, thus saving them the trouble/risk of using late 80's early 90's computer terms which would sound really off if you watched it now.

Within the context of the Battletech universe lore, them using a microfiche reader, VHS tapes, picture tube screens and the like are simply the result of the general decline of high grade technology.

I'm sure say 25 years before the story your reading the by then ancient liquid crystal display iDataStorage device with Windows 2775 media player finally died, and the then good captain replaced the burned out system with the very latest in data viewing/archiving technology available in the year 3000....

Edited by Tyrnea Smurf, 07 December 2013 - 08:09 PM.

[Nebfer]

Well another thing to note is that the first Gray Death series is effectively the original book series, their was nothing before them and not much to go off on via the rule books either. So not much to go on on how to do the tech and computers where not exactly all that common some 25 years ago when the books where written.

[CyclonerM]

Nebfer, on 11 December 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Well another thing to note is that the first Gray Death series is effectively the original book series, their was nothing before them and not much to go off on via the rule books either. So not much to go on on how to do the tech and computers where not exactly all that common some 25 years ago when the books where written.

There was the Star League and also a few Succession Wars happened.. After mankind propagation with interstellar travel

[Karl Streiger]

CyclonerM, on 12 December 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

There was the Star League and also a few Succession Wars happened.. After mankind propagation with interstellar travel

Exactly and with the war the technology was destroyed - and so were the targeting computer systems....while PPCs could hit the horizon (in theory) - target and tracking is limiting them to - short ranges....
...
...
well this explanation did work perfectly - until the Clans did show up....

So - they had there own personal civil war - and massacres of civilians.... but they did not degenerate and were able to make technology far more advanced.

But I have to ask you one thing... CyclonerM? Whey the hell - did your science caste did steal the targeting and tracking systems of the Inner Sphere - the clans were able to put 50% more damage into a PPC but are unable to build a simple T&T device?

(to protect the clans - in MW2 the PPCs were indeed weapons capable of blowing up anything in sight - no matter at which range)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 12 December 2013 - 05:19 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Karl Streiger, on 12 December 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

But I have to ask you one thing... CyclonerM? Whey the hell - did your science caste did steal the targeting and tracking systems of the Inner Sphere - the clans were able to put 50% more damage into a PPC but are unable to build a simple T&T device?

Mmh, excuse me -T&T? I am not familiar with every english acronym

By the way.. Steal? The Clans originated from the Inner Sphere. Apparently the Inner Sphere leaders believed that the great Kerensky did not bring with him (enough?) scientists to improve weapons and 'Mechs (if you look at the numbers, they are even better than Star League era tech).

This is false, as you well know

Yu may also ask why Clan ERPPCs do not "hit the horizon" or even Clansmen use keyboards to "type requests" in holotanks instead of touch controls or even holographic keyboard as seen in some sci-fi movie.

You know the answer: retro-future feeling. They succesfully made us feel that in 3000 the technology level was as average at 20th Century tech Even the Clans, after all, did not modify this feeling very much.

[Tyrnea Smurf]

On Clan tech lacking something, I think the in universe answer is

#1: "Its a far to expensive to use/do that".

#2: "It's dishonorable to use/do that".

Most any shortcoming (from equipment, to technology, to tactics) can be tiptoed around using those excuses.

"Why don't the Clans use sophisticated targeting and tracking systems to really get the most out of their weapons technology?" See answer 1 & 2.

"Why don't the clans simply use their capital warship monopoly to roll the Great Houses even faster/ensure they win Tukayyid thus acquiring the whole point of the invasion?" See answer #2.

ect, ect, ect.