65 replies to this topic

[Hythos]

I have no recommendations on how to make this any better, considering any hint of PvE came as a "not in our lifetime" condition. I would LOVE to see PvE in some form. I would love to see CW. Single-player may have some use.

I do enjoy the *idea* of playing MWO, but no longer wish to play as-is for a multitude of reasons.

[Corvus Antaka]

Yup. We need PVP missions badly.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hythos, on 13 December 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I have no recommendations on how to make this any better, considering any hint of PvE came as a "not in our lifetime" condition. I would LOVE to see PvE in some form. I would love to see CW. Single-player may have some use.

I do enjoy the *idea* of playing MWO, but no longer wish to play as-is for a multitude of reasons.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 13 December 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yup. We need PVP missions badly.

Solution found in one minute!

[Mudhutwarrior]

Someone suggested mission oriented play on another thread where your team had definite goals to accomplish rather than just killing the other team. That would be more interesting than just storming planets.

[Tombstoner]

The problem with PVE missions is simple. this is a skill based game.... AI's have perfect aim. An AI can hit your head at max range effortlessly with dual gauss... game over.

Lowering an AI's skill is basically adding a RNG to compensate for superior skill and turns your chance of success into a series of dice rolls.

I seem to recall many many people revolted at the idea of anything RNG affecting there chance to hit.

are you all now OK with the idea that your survival is determined by a few dice rolls.... wheres the "SKILL" in that?

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 13 December 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Someone suggested mission oriented play on another thread where your team had definite goals to accomplish rather than just killing the other team. That would be more interesting than just storming planets.

They'll be intertwined. You'll do missions WHILE storming planets

[Shismar]

Tombstoner, on 13 December 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

The problem with PVE missions is simple. this is a skill based game.... AI's have perfect aim. An AI can hit your head at max range effortlessly with dual gauss... game over.

Lowering an AI's skill is basically adding a RNG to compensate for superior skill and turns your chance of success into a series of dice rolls.

I seem to recall many many people revolted at the idea of anything RNG affecting there chance to hit.

are you all now OK with the idea that your survival is determined by a few dice rolls.... wheres the "SKILL" in that?

Sorry, you are really off track there. Just because an AI has some random factors featured in, this does certainly not mean that players also have to have more randomness added. Beyond what is already there, as you may know. And if you look at single player shooters, the AIs do not seem to be overpowered either, don't you think?

No, the real problem is, missions of any kind take time to make. Especially in MWO, that still is a better game demo, there is no chance in hell we will be seeing any single player or group mission PvE content in any foreseeable future. If we are lucky, some other game modes and the fabled CW will happen some time next year. I would not bet on it though.

Just enjoy some big robot smashing action for fun. I know it is pretty mindless, but hey, you can still do well after a couple beers!

[Tombstoner]

Shismar, on 13 December 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Sorry, you are really off track there. Just because an AI has some random factors featured in, this does certainly not mean that players also have to have more randomness added. Beyond what is already there, as you may know. And if you look at single player shooters, the AIs do not seem to be overpowered either, don't you think?

No, the real problem is, missions of any kind take time to make. Especially in MWO, that still is a better game demo, there is no chance in hell we will be seeing any single player or group mission PvE content in any foreseeable future. If we are lucky, some other game modes and the fabled CW will happen some time next year. I would not bet on it though.

Just enjoy some big robot smashing action for fun. I know it is pretty mindless, but hey, you can still do well after a couple beers!

AI's in other single player shooters are dumb ed down to not obliterate the player base. other shooters also have bullet spread that the AI has no control over. in fact one way to adjust for AI skill is to increase the cone of fire for the AI's weapons. players are lulled into think the're as good as the computer. changing difficulty settings is simply changing the handy cap the AI is given.

The COF is lacking in MWO so not sure how to tune an AI's targeting skill without a RNG.

Resources are not whats limiting PVE development... how do you balance AI play vs. Humans with this game system. if this cant be answered then there is no point in starting PVE development.

The AI must have some randomizing element to targeting or some other compensation like less damage or armor. without it an AI will never miss with direct fired weapons.

[Khobai]

Who cares if the AI always hits you in the center torso? Thats no different from PVP.

[DeadlyFred]

Tombstoner, on 13 December 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

The problem with PVE missions is simple. this is a skill based game.... AI's have perfect aim. An AI can hit your head at max range effortlessly with dual gauss... game over.

Lowering an AI's skill is basically adding a RNG to compensate for superior skill and turns your chance of success into a series of dice rolls.

You realize that there were at least four other Mechwarrior games before this one, all of which featured single-player campaigns and all of which did not feature AI which would instantly one-shot you every time. Nor did it feature "hit randomization" to avoid that potential. Good AI is not easy to code, heck even decent AI is not easy to code and for that reason alone, you'll probably never see it in MWO. PvP is the best crutch developers could have ever found.

[Daemir]

Tombstoner, on 13 December 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

AI's in other single player shooters are dumb ed down to not obliterate the player base. other shooters also have bullet spread that the AI has no control over. in fact one way to adjust for AI skill is to increase the cone of fire for the AI's weapons. players are lulled into think the're as good as the computer. changing difficulty settings is simply changing the handy cap the AI is given.

The COF is lacking in MWO so not sure how to tune an AI's targeting skill without a RNG.

Resources are not whats limiting PVE development... how do you balance AI play vs. Humans with this game system. if this cant be answered then there is no point in starting PVE development.

The AI must have some randomizing element to targeting or some other compensation like less damage or armor. without it an AI will never miss with direct fired weapons.

I swear at some point of my life I played other mechwarrior titles in single player and nothing you said was in any way relevant in them, but maybe I was just dreaming it all?

[Sandpit]

Erish II, on 13 December 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I swear at some point of my life I played other mechwarrior titles in single player and nothing you said was in any way relevant in them, but maybe I was just dreaming it all?

which is still irrelevant since' you're not playing a single-player MW title here. Never were. Never should have thought you would be.

[cSand]

You should take a 2nd look at the name of the game too

Mechwarrior...

wait for it...











Online

Edited by cSand, 13 December 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[Lykaon]

Tombstoner, on 13 December 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

The problem with PVE missions is simple. this is a skill based game.... AI's have perfect aim. An AI can hit your head at max range effortlessly with dual gauss... game over.

Lowering an AI's skill is basically adding a RNG to compensate for superior skill and turns your chance of success into a series of dice rolls.

I seem to recall many many people revolted at the idea of anything RNG affecting there chance to hit.

are you all now OK with the idea that your survival is determined by a few dice rolls.... wheres the "SKILL" in that?

You do know that ALL the previous Mechwarrior games were PvE? the AI skill level is tuned not player skill level.

Also Cryengine is more than capable of handling MWo PvE missions the issue is writting A.I. coding for these PvE missions.However once the AI is written the process of making PvE content is not all that difficult.

There is a potential gold mine in it for PGI if they sell mission packs for MC and provide non combat rewards like special paint jobs cockpit items etc for rewarding completion.

I particularly like the idea of co-op play as these missions could be valuable as training sessions for new players.

[Sandpit]

Lykaon, on 13 December 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

You do know that ALL the previous Mechwarrior games were PvE? the AI skill level is tuned not player skill level.

Also Cryengine is more than capable of handling MWo PvE missions the issue is writting A.I. coding for these PvE missions.However once the AI is written the process of making PvE content is not all that difficult.

There is a potential gold mine in it for PGI if they sell mission packs for MC and provide non combat rewards like special paint jobs cockpit items etc for rewarding completion.

I particularly like the idea of co-op play as these missions could be valuable as training sessions for new players.

You do know that THIS MW game is not nor ever been a PvE game right?

[Prezimonto]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

They'll be intertwined. You'll do missions WHILE storming planets

Now that's the most optimistic thing I've seen you post.

[JohnnyWayne]

Well you can programm AI's for games right or wrong. His AI is wrong because they are not a simulation of average to good player behaviour.

If you do it right, you simulate behaviour of players but with a scripted preset so that you can define and create real missions.

[Lykaon]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

You do know that THIS MW game is not nor ever been a PvE game right?

You do know that THIS game is not the ONLY game using cryengine right?

Also did you know the initial plan for this mechwarrior game was a pve game set in the Succession wars and it was later decided to run an online pvp game? I believe the initial developer was Brook&Tinker the trailer is still floating around so check youtube.

Cryengine is the engine this game is running and it has been used for PvE so it can be done.

My point in pointing out previous MW titles is it is absolutley possible to do since it was done over ten years ago with significantly less advanced engines.

[Ecto Cooler]

Who cares about PvE anymore? There are plenty of better single player experiences than MW:O I'd rather play.

This game is about competition against your fellow pilots, not shooting AI controlled drones.

[General Taskeen]

Tombstoner, on 13 December 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

snip

So? Its AI. Just like playing Fallout 1 or Dragon Age Origins or old Mech Warrior games with AI.

Of course people are OK with it.