16 replies to this topic

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Something I want to bring up to PGIs attention and made a new topic, because all the other spawn point topics are flooded with PUG game related stuff.

Here's the deal. The new spawn points are messing up lance work in 12-mans. Before we drop, we decide our lances, usually three. Now when you drop, the lances are very far away, so regrouping lances in game takes alot of unnecessary time.

This wouldn't be a problem if reorganizing lances at the ready screen would have any impact on drop points. Instead, this is the result:



It is even worse on Tourmaline and Alpine. We want to practice our lance play and this "feature" makes it difficult and/or time consuming.

It feels like when our company drops, our Dropship malfunctions and 'mechs parachute on the ground random locations in random lances.

I would like to ask PGI to allow 12-mans to drop as a "blob". Because we want to.

[Nightcrept]

This was one of my major points as to why the new spawn locations shouldn't have been released yet.

They needed to wait until the lances could be arranged by the drop leader prior to drop.

It also makes it nearly impossible to coordinate with your pugs like me if your dropping with less then twelve.
Since there is no pre-made to follow anymore pugs are just running a round like noobs shooting. It results in some epic failure teams.

[ATao]

Bumping it up. It could be fixed by tying lance positions to spawn positions. So when company leader shuffles people not only they should change lances but their starting positions as well.

[arghmace]

Yes in general this renovation is good but in 12v12 you should be able to control where everyone drops. When assaults start 2km from each others, it's a recipe for disaster. Basically you wanna have a light lance, a med/heavy lance and an assault lance. But now they all drop mixed up randomly on the map.

[Kamies]

No lobbies and 12-man queue matchmaker messing up with sync dropping and now this! UI 2.0 come and save us all!

[VXJaeger]

Kamies, on 04 December 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

UI 2.0 come and save us all!

Haven't u heard? It will come, and within it'll bring cures for cancer, third world problems, general pollution and Miley Cyrus' tongue alltogether

[Pineapple Salad]

The real danger here is that 12-man play devolves into homogenous teams of 12 assaults, or indeed as we have already witnessed, of 12 lights.

[warner2]

This is a step backwards then? I mean before this change, if a 12 man team put all of their lights in one lance, didn't that lance drop together at a particular spawn location, or has it always been random but not noticeable due to the tighter spawn locations?

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

warner2, on 05 December 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

This is a step backwards then? I mean before this change, if a 12 man team put all of their lights in one lance, didn't that lance drop together at a particular spawn location, or has it always been random but not noticeable due to the tighter spawn locations?

I don't know if it's totally random, the MM is somehow organizing the lances. But once your see the ready screen, your lance that MM has decided to put you in has already spawned so moving people to different lances does not affect the spawn point. The effect with the new spawn points is that Alpha lance can be divided as shown in the picture in the OP. Especially Tourmaline and Alpine has very long distance between the first and third spawn point.

I can adapt to these changes in a 12-man drop (like I adapt to any change in MWO), but it seems stupid to force organized 12-man company to spread out. I just want to point this out. Especially when we (and other teams) spread our lances anyway. We just want to decide ourselves how we divide the drop deck.

Edited by IV Amen, 05 December 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Wendigo Vendetta]

It really is far worse than ever this suggests...
What I have begun to see is roving death swarms of lights and fast mediums who can exploit the dispersed nature of the enemy team, bringing 12 mechs on target against isolated enemies. The spawn points are now known and the light swarm knows exactly where the most isolated enemy lance spawns will be... EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. This would be different if the points were random, but as it stands now, they are just separating slower mechs out for random rapings with no real chance to fight back.
My Atlas has really taken it on the chin these past days due to the lack of plausible light protection and support from the rest of the team.
So, I must ask, are the Founder's Atlas owners going to be compensated for the impending Assault mech limitations and spawn rapes that will slowly render them unplayable?
Of course not...

[Biglead]

Sounds like regrouping lances would take a lot of unnecessary time... If you're running 12 Assaults. The new drop points are fine, get off your crutch.

[Serapth]

arghmace, on 04 December 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Yes in general this renovation is good but in 12v12 you should be able to control where everyone drops. When assaults start 2km from each others, it's a recipe for disaster. Basically you wanna have a light lance, a med/heavy lance and an assault lance. But now they all drop mixed up randomly on the map.

No it's not. This renovation is awful unless you like steamrolling pugs.

[Deathlike]

TBH, I had not thought much further of the implications of this for 12-mans (it is easier for PUGs because team variances and 2-4 man premades).

I'm not sure finer control would be fair (random should stay random for a reason), but better spawn point locations would have to be more beneficial for 12-mans.

Unfortunately, a real fix requires a tie-in to UI 2.0 (having lances in 12-mans defined before dropping), so apparently 12-mans will have to suffer until then.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 December 2013 - 10:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

Biglead, on 05 December 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Sounds like regrouping lances would take a lot of unnecessary time... If you're running 12 Assaults. The new drop points are fine, get off your crutch.

12 Assaults is not really the "intended fix" and that's not even a real problem unless you LIKE running them.

What the OP is talking about is the idea that 12-mans, you want to have already predefined groups (a light lance, an assault lance, and probably some mixed lance). The problem is that your groups are already dispersed (you can't set them in a lance until you reach into a match) and even then you have a mix of mechs that shouldn't be in the same lance. That in itself is a problem in organized play. On some maps, this can be problematic (Tourmaline is the biggest culprit).

People want some finer control over it in the sense that they don't care where the mechs are dropped, but that the dropped mechs are pre-organized.

For instance, in my company example, the light lance would be easily able to regroup or scout with the main force. The assault lance would take it's time regrouping with the other mixed lance. The primary idea is to have predefined/organized routes to move, instead of the "unknown" of the mixed groupings dropping vs a close enemy lance that may or may not have a favorable matchup. It's an unintended advantage of the entire system... to be able to pick off players within the first minute of the match due to "being in the wrong place spawn at the wrong time". That's not exactly what I would call even remotely "fair competition".

It's the same/similar issue in PUG matches, but at least you have some control in the small premade, but in 12-mans, grouping up is the difference between success and failure.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 December 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

I'll go ahead and dissent here because I think that:

1.) Like paratroopers, you have to take into account where you are and regroup before assaulting a target...

2.) And this adds more value to faster mechs, which were devalued with the introduction of 12 man maps.

Some maps (I'm looking at you, forest colony) still punish you for bringing in anything greater than a 250 engine, but I like the new points adding new strategic value to the map. Instead of just loading your 12 man group with 3 lights, 3 Jagers/Catafracts (the slower the better), 3 Highlanders and 3 Atlas, you may want to consider a medium lance in your group, to hunt down lights and protect assaults/heavies who get separated from the main group.

Not saying your point doesn't have merit, because moving around what mechs drop in which lances and where they drop would be nice. Of course, if it took 30 seconds at the beginning of the match to implement, you would drown to death in forum tears.

BTW, I used the "paratroopers" because technically we're emerging from dropships.

Edited by rageagainstthedyingofthelight, 06 December 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

It's the year 3050, Hot drops have jetpack's attatched to the mechs, they aren't actually parachuting out. It would be highly accurate and controlled. If you don't follow this logic then no one would be grouped closely at all.

[Jouren]

h4t3r4d3, on 07 December 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

If you don't follow this logic then no one would be grouped closely at all.

Dont give PGi such idea´s!
The next innovation would be that all 12 are spread over the map for "more" tactics and faster "action".

Edited by Jouren, 07 December 2013 - 10:01 PM.