219 replies to this topic

[Jak Darren]

EDIT: Apparently "No Paul. No." Was too "mean" so my thread had to be renamed. Such thin skin.

Quoted from "PROJECT UPDATE - DEC 2/2013"

Clans:
Design has started to focus on Clan Tech. It is at this time that we must stress once again that we will not be bringing Clan Tech into the game as it was originally written. Game balance is going to take precedence over any values/behaviors found previously in other MechWarrior/BattleTech titles. Yes, there will be growing pains but we will make sure that Clan Tech does have a unique flavor when compared to InnerSphere Tech but not to the extent of everything just being over powered out of the gate.



Paul. You are taking 30 years of a franchise and almost entirely rewriting it. Why would you use this licence if you are not going to keep one of the most PIVOTAL and compelling subject matters by castration? If you're going to just change stuff willy-nilly, why don't you start a new IP?

The Clan invasion is supposed to be a huge turning point in Mechwarrior history BECAUSE of the technological imbalance. It's a stomp-party that we as the Inner Sphere lose pretty hard in, and we're forced to make a lot of socio-political changes in order to deal with.

If the Clans show up with "balanced" mechs, how are you going to explain them getting to Terra in a little under three years, and taking a large portion of our space on the way?

The COMPELLING part of Clan stuff was that they used less hardware to do more with, and their honor system was their downfall, at least in facing us. Clipping THEIR wings means the technological advancements the Inner Sphere had to come up with are no longer as pressing. You are taking one of the most interesting fights against a superior foe and making it dull.

Seriously, why is battlevalue a bad word to you? That has been balanced for YEARS. You guys don't make any sense with your choices. It's not even that you're coloring all the outlines in the coloring book you bought weird colors and outside the lines - you're adding pages that don't even look reasonable.

These are the kinds of choices that make the community hostile towards you. Mechwarrior is an old and well-loved licence. Please treat it with more respect.

Edited by Jak Darren, 09 December 2013 - 10:45 PM.

[Ngamok]

Because you can't balance players in mechs vs. BT lore.

[Helsbane]

'I bought summin that eryone luvs! IMMA CHANGE IT!!!'

This is one of the reasons that I hope MWO fails and does so quickly, so someone else can grab this IP and do it right. It's becoming less 'Mechwarrior' and more WTFWYT with each decision PGI makes.

[Tsula]

Jak Darren, on 04 December 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Quoted from "PROJECT UPDATE - DEC 2/2013"

Clans:
Design has started to focus on Clan Tech. It is at this time that we must stress once again that we will not be bringing Clan Tech into the game as it was originally written. Game balance is going to take precedence over any values/behaviors found previously in other MechWarrior/BattleTech titles. Yes, there will be growing pains but we will make sure that Clan Tech does have a unique flavor when compared to InnerSphere Tech but not to the extent of everything just being over powered out of the gate.



Paul. You are taking 30 years of a franchise and almost entirely rewriting it. Why would you use this licence if you are not going to keep one of the most PIVOTAL and compelling subject matters by castration? If you're going to just change stuff willy-nilly, why don't you start a new IP?

The Clan invasion is supposed to be a huge turning point in Mechwarrior history BECAUSE of the technological imbalance. It's a stomp-party that we as the Inner Sphere lose pretty hard in, and we're forced to make a lot of socio-political changes in order to deal with.

If the Clans show up with "balanced" mechs, how are you going to explain them getting to Terra in a little under three years, and taking a large portion of our space on the way?

The COMPELLING part of Clan stuff was that they used less hardware to do more with, and their honor system was their downfall, at least in facing us. Clipping THEIR wings means the technological advancements the Inner Sphere had to come up with are no longer as pressing. You are taking one of the most interesting fights against a superior foe and making it dull.

Seriously, why is battlevalue a bad word to you? That has been balanced for YEARS. You guys don't make any sense with your choices. It's not even that you're coloring all the outlines in the coloring book you bought weird colors and outside the lines - you're adding pages that don't even look reasonable.

These are the kinds of choices that make the community hostile towards you. Mechwarrior is an old and well-loved licence. Please treat it with more respect.

So you want all the work done so far to be obsolete with arrival of the clans and they didn't make it to terra yet and alot of the clans have become nothing more then a house in the long scheme of things. Yes they have better tech, but it would become a arms races to clan tech and PGI already stated its not about arms racing they want want people to play any size or type of mech and not have anyone be the end all of end alls.

[Jak Darren]

Ngamok, on 04 December 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Because you can't balance players in mechs vs. BT lore.

Yes, you can.

Elo + mech battlevalue + drop sizes.

Simple answer: full company of IS mechs vs one star or binary of Clan Omnimechs, depending on weight, of course.

[MrEdweird]

I think you'd be a fool to believe the game would work with the blatant technological superiority of the clans.
He said they'd be giving them an unique flavor - they may still have the technological superiority.

It's just not going to manifest itself in the game as it was in previous iterations because it wouldn't fit the game.

[Victor Morson]

The real reason this is happening: They want to sell Clan 'mechs to everyone. This means IS pilots will be able to buy this stuff, likely at massive Cbill costs, in an effort to get us to replace our entire 'mech bay.

Also I don't trust PGI to know what overpowered/non-overpowered is. Paul's turning his attention to Clantech and he can't even get the MG or Flamer right, which takes 30 seconds of XML editing.

The fact is even if they bork the weapons but keep things like "2 crit side torsos" Clan Tech will be better.

Again, I entirely believe this is just a ploy to get us to throw out / disregard every single IS 'mech and rebuy a whole new library with the new Cbill economy.

Ngamok, on 04 December 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Because you can't balance players in mechs vs. BT lore.

Living Legends balanced it very well with asymmetrical matches. So balancing Clan vs IS is entirely possible if you have some kind of BVish system. One top tier Clan light = worth an IS heavy. It's fine.

However this would take logical math and we all know know how good Paul is with math / failing to understand his own game at all with Ghost Heat.

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 December 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[Ecto Cooler]

Because you can't add in a bunch of overpowered technology because the lore says so. It might make for a better story but certainly not for the player experience.

[Victor Morson]

Ecto Cooler, on 04 December 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Because you can't add in a bunch of overpowered technology because the lore says so. It might make for a better story but certainly not for the player experience.

Again, asymmetrical matches are a lot of fun. It would require, however, that there are two "master" factions in the game - Clan and IS - and that the tech was restricted in that way. Obviously not house or Clan specific tech, but overall between those two big tech bases.

However it seems they are going the laziest possible way and just dumping Clantech before Community Warfare directly onto our laps. Anyone that remains playing the game will need to buy this stuff - mark my words - or fall behind because again, even if they try to ruin the weapons, they're going to be lighter and smaller and have less slots.

If I'm right, that will be when MW:O really dies. There won't be riots, people will just stop playing. Nobody wants to rebuy an entire garage at this point.

[o0Marduk0o]

Different drop size brings no balance, it forces players to zerg even more.

[Deathlike]

One thing: Clan Project Package

Grab bag deal is in the distance very soon™.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 December 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Jak Darren]

o0Marduk0o, on 04 December 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Different drop size brings no balance, it forces players to zerg even more.

You are correct.

But, limiting drop sizes is not the ONLY way to balance, it's simply part of it. We're suggesting something slightly more robust than 12v8.

[Victor Morson]

Deathlike, on 04 December 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

One thing: Clan Project Package

Grab bag deal is in the distance very soon™.

Buy now and the developers will come back for 5 minutes and heroically

Open XML file
Replace a single number to buff a weapon
Save XML file

"We've improved X! See, we're still hard at work!!"

Jak Darren, on 04 December 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

You are correct.

But, limiting drop sizes is not the ONLY way to balance, it's simply part of it. We're suggesting something slightly more robust than 12v8.

Battle Value.

LL really had it just about perfect. The IS could bring a Warhammer for every Shadow Cat. Tonnage means very little in Clan vs IS.

Unfortunately we're talking people who put a broken ELO system in before they set tonnage caps on drops, so..

[Ransack]

The problem is that every flippin mech in this game is basically an Omni. If that wasn't the case then I think they could have gotten away with just having them configurable, even if the weapon values were lower. Since these IS mech have already shattered canon, I cannot expect them to adhere to canon for the Clans. I am disappointed in the decision, but I totally understand it.

They painted themselves into a corner with the way that the mechlab is setup, something has to give.

[Homeless Bill]

You're pissed about their plans for Clans. I'm pissed that they have plans for Clans. How about that other, much-more-important **** we've been waiting on for well over a year?

[Deathlike]

Homeless Bill, on 04 December 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

You're pissed about their plans for Clans. I'm pissed that they have plans for Clans. How about that other, much-more-important **** we've been waiting on for well over a year?

We feel for you, but, PGI won't. Sorry.

[Blacksoul1987]

Victor Morson, on 04 December 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Buy now and the developers will come back for 5 minutes and heroically

Open XML file
Replace a single number to buff a weapon
Save XML file

"We've improved X! See, we're still hard at work!!"



Battle Value.

LL really had it just about perfect. The IS could bring a Warhammer for every Shadow Cat. Tonnage means very little in Clan vs IS.

Unfortunately we're talking people who put a broken ELO system in before they set tonnage caps on drops, so..

who are you gonna get to play IS mechs? I won't be if clan is better, will you? none of my friends are gonna play IS tech if clan is superior. Assymetrical matches are fun if you are on the clan side, I'll go with your Idea if YOU promise to only use IS tech and I get clan tech to myself.

[White Panther]

I liked it in mw4 where sometimes taking an IS puretech mech was better in certain situations, for example hot maps. Their lasers ran cooler.. For example on terra therma I would maybe want to bring an IS mech for better heat control. Instead of bringing the ERLL nova cat I could bring a maurader with IS large and medium lasers, could better I guess.

Edited by White Panther, 04 December 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Edweird, on 04 December 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I think you'd be a fool to believe the game would work with the blatant technological superiority of the clans.
He said they'd be giving them an unique flavor - they may still have the technological superiority.

It's just not going to manifest itself in the game as it was in previous iterations because it wouldn't fit the game.

Exactly, I mean even if their weapons aren't overpowered, everything the Clans have is smaller and lighter. So while their ERPPC might not be more powerful than an IS one, you can bet their XL engines will take up less space, as will their double heatsinks.

Omnimechs will still be superior to IS ones. I'd also expect the limiting factors to be removed (so no more 2Energy slots, etc). But I want to see what they actually do before I start crying rivers...

[Helmer]

Jak Darren, on 04 December 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

These are the kinds of choices that make the community hostile towards you. Mechwarrior is an old and well-loved licence. Please treat it with more respect.

I remember people saying the same thing when the Clans were introduced . There are always going to be those who prefer 3025, those who prefer the Clans, and a few nut jobs who like the Dark Ages (shudder).

Is each phase of Battletech disrespecting the other ones? Do you think they are intentionally disrespecting them? Do you think Paul is intentionally disrespecting the community ?

Personally, I think they're trying to make a game, thats fun. And seeing as how Paul and Randall Bills talked for hours after the Launch party about these changes , that Bills was onboard with, I'm looking forward to something new and different.


That all being said... I can respect your viewpoint.


Cheers.