228 replies to this topic

[Solis Obscuri]

For one thing, I don't think PGI realized they needed complete overhaul of the UI until early into 2013. I also think they've had their engineers heavily devoted to a lot of other issues (HSR/hit detection problems being a major one).

The whole progression still seems slow, though, and I don't see what other commitments would have been drawing a higher priority in the past several months than getting CW up and running.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Solis Obscuri, on 05 December 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

For one thing, I don't think PGI realized they needed complete overhaul of the UI until early into 2013. I also think they've had their engineers heavily devoted to a lot of other issues (HSR/hit detection problems being a major one).

The whole progression still seems slow, though, and I don't see what other commitments would have been drawing a higher priority in the past several months than getting CW up and running.

You'll see clans before you see CW.

[Solis Obscuri]

MisterFiveSeven, on 05 December 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

You'll see clans before you see CW.

Clan 'mechs? Those are easy. Just some xml tweaks to existing weapon types and a few new models to build and animate. A construct for the actual Clans? You won't be able to have that until CW is in.

[Atlai]

Victor Morson, on 04 December 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

What were you guys working on for most of this year?

Ghost heat.

[DaZur]

Novakaine, on 05 December 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Oh I did'nt see this one.
And I call bullchips

You find me that very precious thread or post where someone didn't take a swipe at a Dev or PGI and I'll gladly rescind my statement.

Edited by DaZur, 05 December 2013 - 08:19 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

I'm just floating around right now, got some mc saved for either mechbays or a more interesting light mech than the oxide jenner.

Still playing but my attitude about due dates and new content and pgi has all kind of reached the point of meltdown and I am just kinda in a meh to everything phase until something happens, also just got pokemon x so yeah (<< late 80s/early 90s kid was 10 when they first hit the gameboy)


On topic im gonna assume failed and buried work that will never see the light of day or holidays

[Diego Angelus]

Solis Obscuri, on 05 December 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

For one thing, I don't think PGI realized they needed complete overhaul of the UI until early into 2013. I also think they've had their engineers heavily devoted to a lot of other issues (HSR/hit detection problems being a major one).

The whole progression still seems slow, though, and I don't see what other commitments would have been drawing a higher priority in the past several months than getting CW up and running.

So they realized and went for launch ? There is something fishy about that. All they had to do is not launch game if they came out clean and said guys we need more time I'm sure all of us would be ok with that because when game launches with out basic stuff implemented its bound to have big issues. Now we are sitting and waiting for miracle update to gives us basic stuff.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Nation Uprise, on 05 December 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

"The one exception is the Community Warfare pillar which is a complex system but extremely important. In not wanting to delay the game, logic dictates it be added post-launch. Once fans are completely familiar with creating their 'Mech and pilot trees, the depth of Community Warfare will be added, with the core of the community experience projected to be in-game within 90 days of open beta. " (Jun 15, 2012) - http://mwomercs.com/...eveloper-update

How could a company be so bad with estimations...

[Calamus]

Bront, on 05 December 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

I was going to Photoshop my face on Sofia Vergara's body, but I got busy with work, and now I just don't have the ambition. Sorry.

[Heffay]

Calamus, on 06 December 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

I was going to Photoshop my face on Sofia Vergara's body, but I got busy with work, and now I just don't have the ambition. Sorry.

How about you just post a picture of Sofia Vergara's body instead? We'll accept that as a temporary solution until you get motivated to do it.

[Tombstoner]

18 Inches of Hard Steel, on 06 December 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

How could a company be so bad with estimations...

Development of anything is problematic. lots of times seemingly very simple things can turn out the be the most complex part of the system. you just dont know until you start development.

In PGI's defense i expect the lack of cyrengine support to be a big issue. PGI has been looking for a coder with cryengin exp for a long time. hence they built something that didn't meet the long term needs of the game. when work shifts from one phase to another unexpected issues become apparent. I think PGI worked there ***** off fixing just about everything they could. But Heffay is right that UI2.0 is miss named: too much under the hood needs to be changed. it should be called MWO2.0.

so i expect that the lost time was spent working on CW and other features, but when it came time to evaluate progress. In my industry we call it a stage gate. the work to date was evaluated and found lacking. hence the need to literally start over... leading to QQ by the community. sadly this is not uncommon with development.

[DaZur]

Calamus, on 06 December 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

I was going to Photoshop my face on Sofia Vergara's body, but I got busy with work, and now I just don't have the ambition. Sorry.

I'm glad your motivation failed and elected to not feed into his perverse fantasies... It would only get more weird than it already is.

Heffay, on 06 December 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

How about you just post a picture of Sofia Vergara's body instead? We'll accept that as a temporary solution until you get motivated to do it.

You keep this up and I'm going to petition for someone to throw cold water on you...

[Novakaine]

I feel the ruinous powers of profit at work here.
CW has been sacrificed to the god of profit.
"Which in itself is not such a bad thing."
So we'll be seeing Clanker Mech Sales very soon.
"No need to worry about CW with the new baubles blazing in their eyes."
Yup it's the old bait and switch.
I can hear that napkin CW was scribbled on being shoved back in pocket right now.

[Jalik]

It's amazing how one can talk about stuff one dosn't know **** about. That's rediculous.
Lets just assume everbody did... nothing for the best part of the year. Why do you care? Don't use the product if you don't like it. Plenty of awsome games out there.
However, it's safe to assume they did work their ***** off. But why should they tell YOU about every subproject someone is working on? Just because YOU DEMAND it? Last time they talked too much about their projects - you may remember - it backfired because of a lack of proper communication and the mere fact that they talked too much and raised expectations for a feature that later was modified.
It's a bussiness after all. You tell the players what they have to know but nothing more. That's simply how it's done. After they had something to show us (UI2.0 concept pics) they did show us. If you would've listend to the NGNG podcast or read some of the PGI postings you would know that the new UI is more than just a fresh layer of paint. From what I understood, they changed the whole system below that paint. As PGI explained that's also needed for alot of the upcoming features. Such under the hood stuff is nothing you can show around until it's implemented. Creating the concept art was NOT the first step of the work. Why are you so naive to believe they started the UI2.0 project with a concept pic?!? C'mon!

[Fut]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 04 December 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Interesting. You have a link for the info that says PGI didnt start on ui 2.0 until that time?

Lets be real now though. You really think if those numbers of man hours where accurate we would be where we are today?

Your expectations are far to high given what we have seen since closed beta. Lower your expectations of quality & productivity, and you won't need to sweat the fact that game development takes such a long time.

This should be PGI's new company slogan.
"PGI: Lower your expectations of quality & productivity"

I don't know much about the game development world, but I do have a basic understanding of business and consumerism.
PGI has officially launched this game - that is a kin to putting a product on a shelf or in a showroom, is it not?

Could you imagine going into a car dealership to pick up a new vehicle that you've purchased, only to find out that none of the 4 core pillars of automotive design were finished yet?
Or buying a new TV that can't tune half the channels, and can only hook up devices via RCA?

When a product is "launched" it should be complete. If it's not, it shouldn't be released, or there should be one hell of a good explanation as to why things aren't finished yet.

Edited by Fut, 06 December 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Heffay]

Fut, on 06 December 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

PGI has officially launched this game - that is a kin to putting a product on a shelf or in a showroom, is it not?

No, not at all. Old adages don't always apply.

[tayhimself]

Fut, on 06 December 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

This should be PGI's new company slogan.
"PGI: Lower your expectations of quality & productivity"

[Fut]

Heffay, on 06 December 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

No, not at all. Old adages don't always apply.

Care to explain why it doesn't apply to PGI's release of MWO?
Not trying to be a {Richard Cameron} here, just want to know if there's a reason.

Destined, on 06 December 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I see what you did there, but this thread has run it's course.

Boo-urns

Edited by Fut, 06 December 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Heffay]

Fut, on 06 December 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Care to explain why it doesn't apply to PGI's release of MWO?
Not trying to be a {Richard Cameron} here, just want to know if there's a reason.

No problem! Now that this thread is in K-Town we can start having real discussions!

It's not PGI's release of MWO that this applies to. When they stated that the release process for F2P games is different than traditional games, they made some good points. You don't have to have everything ready; just a minimally viable product. Hate that term, but even the AoEO postmortem used it and discussed how that is all you really need.

The key is to make sure after launch you continue to provide enough new content to keep people playing and the player base growing. But a release date for something that is gradually changing over time is far different than a product with a fixed cost value that you provide at a given time (your showroom example). A product on a shelf has to be *complete*, since there is no updating it down the road. Most game titles cost a big chunk of money out of the gate, and you have to have everything there that you need. There may be room for DLCs down the road, but you're also charging for those.

For a completely free product, you can meter out the content, hopefully at a quick enough pace that people feel they get good value out of what they bought before getting bored and moving on. That's how it's different than a showroom product. You're gradually improving the product over time instead of having a fully functional death star.

[Corvus Antaka]

Fut, on 06 December 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

When a product is "launched" it should be complete. If it's not, it shouldn't be released, or there should be one hell of a good explanation as to why things aren't finished yet.

Sadly in the video game world this just isnt true. Witnes Rome total war 2 - which as a release product was shameful in its bugginess and poor quality but with 7 patches and user made mods shines as an exemplary game.

Its kinda like buying a car and having to turbo and paint it yourself to actually get a quality item

Too bad MWO doesn't support community modding. I find it so interesting that no company has really picked up community modding in a F2P title yet when it is such an obvious benefit in terms of map production alone, and yet companies seem unable to harness the power of their playerbase, even in a title like MWO, where mechwarrior has had mektek & so many modders for so many years available to it, like the MW:LL guys too.

Even more interesting is why we can never get a clear answer as to "why" community mods seem unmanageable by gaming companies in the F2P MMO market.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 06 December 2013 - 09:44 AM.