19 replies to this topic

[Mr D One]

Hi Mech Fighters... Dar1ng One here.

So 250 MC gets you premium time for a day, eh?

Lets call it 240 as that divides into 24 hours better.

So if I play for 4 hours I have lost 200 MC to PGI for sweet f%ck all.

Your better off putting your real money towards a hero mech or mech bay.

The fix.

How about 10 MC for an hour, 40 for 5 hours and so forth.

I would buy it like that.

As it currently is I won't.

[Fut]

Dar1ng One, on 06 December 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Hi Mech Fighters... Dar1ng One here.

So 250 MC gets you premium time for a day, eh?

Lets call it 240 as that divides into 24 hours better.

So if I play for 4 hours I have lost 200 MC to PGI for sweet f%ck all.

Your better off putting your real money towards a hero mech or mech bay.

The fix.

How about 10 MC for an hour, 40 for 5 hours and so forth.

I would buy it like that.

As it currently is I won't.

Yes!
I've mentioned a few times that the way Premium Time works is a bit ******.
It's expensive, and you can't pause it once it's started. Most of my premium time would be completely wasted if I started it up (I've been saving up all the free time since the beginning).

If they sold it by the hour, or in 5 hour increments, I might actually be compelled to purchase it for an evening of play.

Honestly, I believe that PGI would make more money doing it this way.

[Heffay]

They could also sell it by the match. But I think having a timer count down in the background helps get people to drop more. If you have 3 days of premium left, you'll probably be tempted to eek out every last you can get out of that.

[Sug]

Just starting playing LoL again after a 2 year break (MWO) and I noticed that their XP/IP boosts can be bought for a certain number of wins. Seems like a good idea.

So instead of 1 day of premium time we could get our bonus for like 20 wins or so.

[Roadkill]

Dar1ng One, on 06 December 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

How about 10 MC for an hour, 40 for 5 hours and so forth.

But those would be... *gasp*... microtransactions. Sorry, that just makes too much sense for PGI. They'd rather have one guy who'll pay $60 for a Hero Atlas than 60 guys who'll pay $1 for an evening's premium time. 'Cause, you know, the one guy can play by himself.

[DaZur]

Sug, on 06 December 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

So instead of 1 day of premium time we could get our bonus for like 20 wins or so.

Interesting... Incentivize play-time / grind-time through Premium-time rewards. I like it!

Play 20 matches and receive 2 hours of premium... Another 20 matches... 2 more hours. etc..etc...etc...

[Heffay]

DaZur, on 06 December 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Interesting... Incentivize play-time / grind-time through Premium-time rewards. I like it!

Play 20 matches and receive 2 hours of premium... Another 20 matches... 2 more hours. etc..etc...etc...

This would be a pretty clever solution to increasing the number of people playing. I think a 20:2 ratio might be a bit generous (assume 10 min matches, you'll eventually get 60% of your matches under premium time just by playing), but it may be a nice third incentive (beyond and GXP) to get people dropping more.

[Blurry]

The hard part is that yes even tho it is a waste the return on it also sucks due to the match maker.
My experience has been that of streaks - you go a couple days of losing to a day of winning and back again. Now in those days of losing they are 1 sided curb stomps that are usually 2-12.

At the end of that even with a hero mech and prem time you dont make that much beyond what you get for just showing up. And on the days that you get the winning streak depending on what you bring you can struggle to get the appropriate amount of hits for a payoff.

It wouldnt be so bad of a grind if the games were fun and close.
However if as you suggested sell it by a different table you may be able to use it to a greater advantage on just the winning the days and maximize the use of it.

[C E Dwyer]

premium time in all games works like this, ohh how I miss the days of that being the only choice..

[Rhaythe]

Cathy, on 06 December 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

premium time in all games works like this

Pretty much. Same standard of model that Blacklight, Warframe, and a few others go by. You pay to reduce the grind, not to achieve any actual benefit. Anything you do with premium time can be done without; it just takes longer.

Free-to-play has to make its money somehow. This one does it by offering conveniences instead of gold ammo. I'm okay with that.

[DaZur]

The funny thing (at least to me) is that at no time since the demise of R&R, does a player ever "lose" money... Yet time and time again I see posts that premise that they just can't go on playing because it's not not worth it to try and grind out whatever it is they desire...

Isn't that the point of a F2P?... To create enough friction through the grind to make players realize that their time is more valuable than their money?

As the MW:O economics stand: Standard non-premium player = harsh grind. Hero owner (30% boost) = moderate grind. Premium time user (50% boost) = moderate grind. Premium + Hero owner (80% boost) = reasonable grind.

IMHO... we (those of us who've been here since CB) have been spoiled and and our perception of what is reasonable tainted and I wholly blame PGI for not balancing economy sooner... The "standard" grind was roughly equivalent to the net return of moderate grind, while the addition of either premium and or a Hero made the grind reasonable.

Having both a Hero and premium at that time put ones earnings into high-gear that actually "felt" like you were receiving a bonus above and beyond and not just supplementing...

"This" is why premium feels worthless now (even though it's really not)... Our perceptions have been skewed and I'm not sure we can be de-conditioned to feel otherwise.

Edited by DaZur, 06 December 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Roadkill]

DaZur, on 06 December 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Isn't that the point of a F2P?... To create enough friction through the grind to make players realize that their time is more valuable than their money?

Absolutely, but it's a difficult balancing act between encouraging players to pay to reduce the grind and discouraging players by making the grind simply too arduous no matter what.

To me, it feels like PGI has strayed too far toward the latter. Even a Premium account really isn't sufficient the way the economy is currently balanced. It isn't reasonable to expect a player to have Premium + Hero, because expecting that is essentially saying that 90% of Mechs aren't really useful.

[Doctor Proctor]

Dar1ng One, on 06 December 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Hi Mech Fighters... Dar1ng One here.

So 250 MC gets you premium time for a day, eh?

Lets call it 240 as that divides into 24 hours better.

So if I play for 4 hours I have lost 200 MC to PGI for sweet f%ck all.

Your better off putting your real money towards a hero mech or mech bay.

The fix.

How about 10 MC for an hour, 40 for 5 hours and so forth.

I would buy it like that.

As it currently is I won't.

That's only way of looking at Premium Time though. For $15 I can buy 3000 MC which will allow me to purchase 30 days of Premium at 2500 MC with another 500 MC left over to buy a mech bay (300 MC) and either a few other items or to save up for something later. The cost of items goes down as you purchase more, so of course the lowest tier items will usually look like a not so great deal, whereas at higher tiers the costs balance out a little bit better.

Edited by Doctor Proctor, 06 December 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Flyby215]

DaZur, on 06 December 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

The funny thing (at least to me) is that at no time since the demise of R&R, does a player ever "lose" money... Yet time and time again I see posts that premise that they just can't go on playing because it's not not worth it to try and grind out whatever it is they desire...

Isn't that the point of a F2P?... To create enough friction through the grind to make players realize that their time is more valuable than their money?

As the MW:O economics stand: Standard non-premium player = harsh grind. Hero owner (30% boost) = moderate grind. Premium time user (50% boost) = moderate grind. Premium + Hero owner (80% boost) = reasonable grind.

IMHO... we (those of us who've been here since CB) have been spoiled and and our perception of what is reasonable tainted and I wholly blame PGI for not balancing economy sooner... The "standard" grind was roughly equivalent to the net return of moderate grind, while the addition of either premium and or a Hero made the grind reasonable.

Having both a Hero and premium at that time put ones earnings into high-gear that actually "felt" like you were receiving a bonus above and beyond and not just supplementing...

"This" is why premium feels worthless now (even though it's really not)... Our perceptions have been skewed and I'm not sure we can be de-conditioned to feel otherwise.

I really like this explanation.

What exactly are people trying to grind out anyway? I know there's some here who are playing "Pokemech" and trying to collect them all / master them all. But what about the average F2P player, who perhaps has little knowledge of the Battletech universe? Are they trying to collect them all or just grind out the c-bills for the 4 mechs in their bays? Assuming they're not looking for 4 Atlases, I wouldn't say the grind is all that bad. Enough for a mech, weapons, upgrades, should take a couple of months of casual play? (not including cadet bonus)

Edited by Flyby215, 06 December 2013 - 11:36 AM.

[Ngamok]

Cathy, on 06 December 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

premium time in all games works like this, ohh how I miss the days of that being the only choice..

Boosters in GW2 are paused when you are offline. I think RIFT boosters work this way too.

[DaZur]

Roadkill, on 06 December 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

To me, it feels like PGI has strayed too far toward the latter. Even a Premium account really isn't sufficient the way the economy is currently balanced. It isn't reasonable to expect a player to have Premium + Hero, because expecting that is essentially saying that 90% of Mechs aren't really useful.

I agree with ya about 93.7%

​I think the general consensus is that PGI has deviated too far to the stingy side... That said, I also think PGI anticipated CW would be going by now and some CW bonus aspect of that would have been in place. In short... they preemptively adjusted down for a boost that has yet to manifest.

Where I think I disagree is I believe it had been PGI's goal all along for everyone to have a premium mech and be reliant upon premium time... 80% over flat-rate is not too shabby and it creates demand for more and more Hero mechs and "packages"...

Think of it as MW:O crack... Once we get a taste of it, we become dependant upon it and, well... there ya have it. We're hooked.

Flyby215, on 06 December 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

I really like this explanation.

What exactly are people trying to grind out anyway? I know there's some here who are playing "Pokemech" and trying to collect them all / master them all. But what about the average F2P player, who perhaps has little knowledge of the Battletech universe? Are they trying to collect them all or just grind out the c-bills for the 4 mechs in their bays? Assuming they're not looking for 4 Atlases, I wouldn't say the grind is all that bad. Enough for a mech, weapons, upgrades, should take a couple of months of casual play? (not including cadet bonus)

Honestly... it's a little from bucket A and a little from bucket B...

I think "most" players once invested in this game want to "sample"... Many will go so far as Pokemon, but most I speculate are looking for at least one viable mech in each class. That's 12 mechs, assuming they wish to master 4 of them...

Edited by DaZur, 06 December 2013 - 12:35 PM.

[Sug]

DaZur, on 06 December 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Interesting... Incentivize play-time / grind-time through Premium-time rewards. I like it!
Play 20 matches and receive 2 hours of premium... Another 20 matches... 2 more hours. etc..etc...etc...

Heffay, on 06 December 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

This would be a pretty clever solution to increasing the number of people playing. I think a 20:2 ratio might be a bit generous (assume 10 min matches, you'll eventually get 60% of your matches under premium time just by playing), but it may be a nice third incentive (beyond and GXP) to get people dropping more.

Misunderstanding.

When I used LoL bonus system as an example I meant that, like LoL players, we'd get our bonus, no matter how long or how many games it takes, for 20 wins.

So say. just throwing numbers out, for 3$ of MC you get the premium bonus for 20 wins, you play 10 games a day and win half of them, so over 4 days of your average playing you'd get your wins and your bonuses.

I was not suggesting we use matches/wins/cbills as a means of acquiring premium time though that is an interesting idea.

Edited by Sug, 06 December 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Roadkill]

DaZur, on 06 December 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Where I think I disagree is I believe it had been PGI's goal all along for everyone to have a premium mech and be reliant upon premium time... 80% over flat-rate is not too shabby and it creates demand for more and more Hero mechs and "packages"...

I hear ya. But if that's the case, I think they're making a mistake. I think that Premium time by itself should be sufficient because that's essentially your subscription model. Premium time is what people who can play 20 hours per week will "pay" for the game.

Heroes are for people who can't play 20 hours per week. If you can't play regularly, Premium time is wasted as it keeps ticking even when you're not doing the dakka dakka. So instead, those players buy Hero/Phoenix Mechs and get their bonus that way. The bonus is lower because it's permanent. But it's locked to a single Mech, so that encourages purchase of other Hero mechs.

The players who can afford both get a nice big bonus. But then that's okay, because they're essentially double paying for the game. I think it's crazy to expect the "average" play to pay both ways, though. Either/or really should be sufficient.

[Fooooo]

Sug, on 06 December 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Misunderstanding.

When I used LoL bonus system as an example I meant that, like LoL players, we'd get our bonus, no matter how long or how many games it takes, for 20 wins.

So say. just throwing numbers out, for 3$ of MC you get the premium bonus for 20 wins, you play 10 games a day and win half of them, so over 4 days of your average playing you'd get your wins and your bonuses.

I was not suggesting we use matches/wins/cbills as a means of acquiring premium time though that is an interesting idea.

Does the premium time bonus still happen on losses in LoL's system ? Or it only applys the bonus for games that are won ?

If the former I could see people trying to lose on purpose, thats about the only flaw I can see.....which is easily fixed by the latter.....

Edited by Fooooo, 07 December 2013 - 03:16 AM.

[Sug]

Fooooo, on 07 December 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

Does the premium time bonus still happen on losses in LoL's system? Or it only applys the bonus for games that are won?

You only get the bonus on wins.

Several people have told me not to buy the XP bonuses because since LoL has an actual leveling/matchmaking system leveling up faster just means that you're going to be matched against people with twice as many games played as you. And you'll probably just get your *** beat.