15 replies to this topic

[Eglar]

With the recent release of the Hero Jenner "Oxide", I've been trying out both a Striker Oxide and a Streak Oxide both mechs seemed to be viable for casual play. While often ending a match with a damage of around 800 with still more than 100 ammo left on the streak oxide, the striker Oxide seemed to have its damage capped at 500-600 before I run out of ammo. I personally believe that the damage output between SRMs and Streaks are both okay, however I'd really would like to see an addition to the SRM ammo amount per ton.

While Streaks deal 2.5 damage each missile, SRM Rockets only do 2 damage. A ton of SRM ammo so would be able to deal 200 theoretical damage if all the rockets hit while a ton of streak ammo deals 250 dmg. Taking this into account, Streaks basically never miss unless they hit an terrain obstacle.

With the current Meta clearly favoring Streaks for "shoot and forget" plus hit bot detection issues with SRMS, would it be too much to ask for a little bit more love for SRMs? Maybe 150 Shots per ton?

[CravenMadness]

Instead of asking for buffs to known broken weapons, why not ask for more focus to be spent on fixing the actual missile hit registry. It's a widely known 'phenomenon' that in a blob of 3xsrm6s hitting a target of any size, only about three to six missiles will actually 'register' on the rag-doll.

That said, I have absolutely no idea why streak missiles are 2.5 and normal missiles are 2.0. When/if streak 4 or 6 comes out, srms are just going to be dropped because not only do they not lock on, they don't even deliver the same potential damage output. So you would get more bang for your buck out of streak 4 rather than a srm 6 and pretty much guaranteed hits.

[Eglar]

CravenMadness, on 05 December 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Instead of asking for buffs to known broken weapons, why not ask for more focus to be spent on fixing the actual missile hit registry.

Because I am sure that changing a value from 100 to 150 is a matter of seconds (testing excluded). Compared to fixing the entire hit box registry which could still take quite a few months - where I am sure that pgi is already looking into it.

Edited by Eglar, 05 December 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Bilbo]

You should still be coming out ahead with regular SRMs because they are hitting the points(generally speaking) that you aim at. While the streaks are easier to use, you simply have no idea where the missiles are going to hit. The lower damage of the regular missiles should still be more effective than the streaks, assuming you can aim.

[CravenMadness]

I enjoy instant gratification as well as the next guy, but putting a bandage on is just going to numb the issue, and then when it's fixed it likely wouldn't be nerfed back to 'normal' ...

Just look at what happened with ppcs when all the people whining about the hit reg back in 'closed beta' or whenever, said the ppc was a waste and so pgi buffed it with speed, lower heat etc ... And then when the registry for that weapon was actually fixed, it took them almost a year to put the values back to relative normalcy and by that time everyone was used to their super-powered ppcs and now we have 20-page long threads of old ppc user tears who can't handle their -normal- heat.

[Eglar]

Bilbo, on 05 December 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

You should still be coming out ahead with regular SRMs because they are hitting the points(generally speaking) that you aim at. While the streaks are easier to use, you simply have no idea where the missiles are going to hit. The lower damage of the regular missiles should still be more effective than the streaks, assuming you can aim.

You can't pinpoint that well with SRMs the way i understood a SRM salvo is that they reach the best convergence either from point-blank or on 270 meters? (not sure if that is correct) otherwise they work just like LB-X.

The other thing is that if you aim at a moving target (anything running faster than 60kph, due to the slow projectile speed) your cross-hair is generally pointing at the terrain behind the actual target so if you have the missiles on different hardpoint locations they are going to cross on a different location than intended.

Edited by Eglar, 05 December 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Bilbo]

They come out in a pattern size determined by the launcher size. You can predictably hit any location if your am is good. I like to use SRM4's nowadays because the pattern is fairly tight without Artemis. I wouldn't go light hunting with regular SRM's though.

[AC]

Streaks and SRM's should do the same damage. The thing people forget is that streaks are just SRM2's. You wouldn't boat SRM2's and expect mega damage, so I am not sure why people think that boating streaks should do tons of damage.

I say this knowing that down the road we will have Streak 4's and Streak 6's. I am just trying to avoid the QQ and imbalance now with the current damage difference. An SRM6 will do 12 damage while a Streak 6 will do 15 damage. On top of that one of the stock Madcats carries four (4) Streak 6's, and it can chain fire them for no Ghost heat penalty. Chain firing SRM's generally doesn't work because you don't always have a decent shot to get most of the missiles work. (Just another reason why Ghost Heat is a really poor concept that creates more balance issues than it solves, but I digress...)

Either SRM's need to be kicked up to 2.5 damage, streaks need to be dropped to 2.0 damage, or maybe they need to meet in the middle at 2.25 damage for both. Either way, SRM's in general are at a distinct disadvantage already due to how slow they are and no tracking. Leveling the damage output between streaks and SRM's might see them get a bit more use.

[Trauglodyte]

SRMs died a horrible death months and months ago. People that keep using them are simply wasting their time. Either change over to Streaks or change mechs. Sadly, if you're not boating Md Lasers, Lrg Lasers, or ACs, you're doing it alllllll wrong.

[Eglar]

Bilbo, on 05 December 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

They come out in a pattern size determined by the launcher size. You can predictably hit any location if your am is good. I like to use SRM4's nowadays because the pattern is fairly tight without Artemis. I wouldn't go light hunting with regular SRM's though.

o well i just aimed for the open right torso of a standing-still atlas with srm 16s fired quiete some salvos and guess what? opened his CT, hit off his arm and killed him by headshooting him, just wouldn't take down the RT. Same if you aim at legs of mechs, half your rockets just pass by the legs, and that's not even an hit detection issue, they just don't all go to the leg. and here I am pretty sure: it's not my aim, can't really pinpoint the damage. That's why it just gives me the "limited range LB-X" feeling. The spread from ssrms might be bigger, but at least you do hit with each rocket.

Now one might think that I can't aim but I in all honesty believe that my elo on all weight-classes are above average and that it's just "not possible" for the average player to shoot all missiles so they hit the same region, if hitting at all.

[KharnZor]

Trauglodyte, on 05 December 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

SRMs died a horrible death months and months ago. People that keep using them are simply wasting their time. Either change over to Streaks or change mechs. Sadly, if you're not boating Md Lasers, Lrg Lasers, or ACs, you're doing it alllllll wrong.

While i agree they are broken the rest is garbage. I don't do meta and i do very well.

[Trauglodyte]

KharnZor, on 05 December 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

While i agree they are broken the rest is garbage. I don't do meta and i do very well.

I'm not speaking to the meta. I don't mess with it either, though, I've run some builds pre-meta that now seem to be the meta (hurts the head when you think about it). All weapons are usable its just that some are better than others while still others don't suffer from coding issues. Small Lasers are "usable" but you won't get very far when you have to face hump your target. The Med Laser, on the other hand, has a much longer range with the same number of criticals and does more damage for heat. The Large Laser, while 2.5x as heavy as two Med Lasers does 1 point less damage than those two Meds for 1 point less heat while having an additional 180m range but only takes up one hard point vs two. When you are making the choice in weapons for your builds, you have to look at all aspects of the game of which range is one of the bigger ones. In this respect, all three weapons listed have their merits but you're better off running the single Large as opposed to two Meds, given the weight allowance, and MUCH better off than two Small Lasers as you'll be able to inflict damage at a target much further away without having to dance through terrain to get to your target.

I feel like I'm rambling there but does that make sense?

[AC]

PGI kinda broke laser weapons with their weapon slot system as well. In past MW games, (or even in the board game) small lasers tended to be boated. If you could swap a large laser for 2 mediums or 4 smalls, then that would definitely provide for some more entertaining configs. As it sits, you generally can't get enough small lasers on a chassis to make them worth taking for the space requirement.

This is just another example of how a MORE restrictive weapon slot system would be helpful. If they tied a critical space restriction to each weapon slot, they could add more slots to mechs but restrict them for smaller weapons. You might actually see a K2 with 4 MG in its toros, or a stalker with 12 small lasers mixed in with its LRM's loadout. Restrictive weapons slots would eliminate the need for Ghost Heat, Gauss delay, and if done right could create even MORE freedom with mech design in the mech lab.

Edited by AC, 06 December 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd like to increase ammo per ton too on SRMs, maybe even up to 180 missiles could work. That'll be 30 shots from one ton for SRM 6s, 45 shots from SRM 4s, and 90 shots from SRM2s.

And I'd also rather trade the 2.5 damage per SSRM missiles for 180 per ton also.

After that, boost the projectile speed. Go from 300 m/s to 425 m/s on SRMs, and go from 200 m/s on SSRMs to 250 m/s. LRMs need a speed boost too.


Then, with Hit Reg issues, I wonder if reducing the number of projectiles for missile weapons could help?

So instead of having each missile tracked individually by the server, have SRMs and SSRMs in groups of two missiles, and LRMs in groups of five. Then with AMS instead of damaging missile health, maybe have AMS reduce missile damage directly?

[Oppresor]

Following the advice from the forum I have fitted one Streak 2 to my Atlas for anti-light work. Experience so far:

1. When it does work, it works really well; I mean it actually chased a Spider into the air and hit it when he or she went for their jump jets.

2. The problem, Lock time. You have to stay on target for several seconds before you get a firing lock. If this time was reduced the weapon would be awesome.

[AC]

I am fine with lock time. I just wish ECM didn't prevent lock. ECM should significantly increase lock time and BAP should decrease lock time. If you have BAP and they have ECM, then lock time should be normal. This give a reason to take BAP beyond negating ECM and it gives a reason to take ECM without it being the "I win module" it is now.

Edited by AC, 10 December 2013 - 01:38 PM.