6 replies to this topic

[Arius]

Hi!

I played some games of the Battletech tabletop ages ago (~15 years or so).

IIRC you had some kind of to-hit roll to see if you hit with a weapon, then came the part where you rolled which part of the enemy you hit (torso, leg, arm etc.). Right so far?

I was wondering, was there a difference in the probability to hit one or the other part with respect to mech (i.e. 80% chance to hit the torso on one mech, only 60% chance to hit torso on another type of mech). In other words, was the hit allocation based on the looks/layout of the mech, or was it one template for all?

I am asking, because I feel that there is a definite difference in survivability of the mechs independent from armour value. Some mechs you have to shoot for ages, some drop at the second shot just because all the damage seems to converge on one area.

thanks for answers!

cheers,

[Mechteric]

No, in battletech each mech had the same chance to hit each part (based on location and orientation of source and target of course). Rolling an 8 may always hit the CT for instance (maybe it was 7, whatever, just example).

But that is a strategy game where its all chance, as opposed to individual skill like in MWO, so if that's the parallel you're trying to make then forget it. Totally different kind of game.

[Spokes]

Arius, on 05 December 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

I am asking, because I feel that there is a definite difference in survivability of the mechs independent from armour value. Some mechs you have to shoot for ages, some drop at the second shot just because all the damage seems to converge on one area.

A lot of that depends on the design of the individual 'Mech-- how its armor is allocated, how its critical locations are spread out, etc. It can also depend on what weapons you're using to attack it.

Some 'Mechs have frighteningly small amounts of armor on their backs, others have weak leg armor, or pack ammunition in vulnerable areas.

I remember the first table top game I played with purely 3025 tech-- I remember being amazed at just how much fire my opponent's Catapult was able to soak and keep fighting.

[Arius]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 December 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

But that is a strategy game where its all chance, as opposed to individual skill like in MWO, so if that's the parallel you're trying to make then forget it. Totally different kind of game.

I wouldn't say that. Skill is fine if the chance to hit CT is the same for every mech.

The way I understand it in MWO the hitboxes are different - a Catapult has a much larger CT than a Thunderbold, hasn't it?

So you need less skill to kill a CAT because whatever does splash damage (think missiles or when you strafe your lasers across a mech) hits more of the CT form a CAT than from a Thunderbolt, to stick with the example.

IMO this makes mechs uneven. Of course the CT on a CAT LOOKS bigger, but that doesn't mean every hit to that huge area is significant.

Spokes, on 05 December 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

I remember the first table top game I played with purely 3025 tech-- I remember being amazed at just how much fire my opponent's Catapult was able to soak and keep fighting.

That's how it should be, it's a heavy mech after all, don't you agree? But in MWO I get the feeling it is far easier to drop because most of the damage goes to the CT.

Edited by Arius, 05 December 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

It isn't possible in TT because the game is based on 2d6 - you don't have enough possibilitys to make a real difference.
However when you convert TT to another system like 2d10...

it could be possible that for some Mechs the CT is hit on
11 and 3 and 19 (for example the Thunderbolt)
and 11 and 5 and 17 for the Catapult

Although I don't know what impact it would have - has to be tested

[Edustaja]

Here are the chances to hit different components from the front (based on http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CBT_Tables):



You could get similar probability distribution with most dice combinations, it just depends on how you lay out the table.

[Pht]

Wall of text warning!

From "Total Warfare," and "tactical ops" Core Rules books .


This is somewhat of a mixture of the advanced and tournament level rules, but it should be helpful.

The Basic hit-location table:

This first set represents keeping the the reticule on the center of mass ("chest") of the front of a targeted 'Mech that's facing you "square on":

• There's a 13.89% or 5 out of 36 chance of hitting the right arm (or roughly 1 out of 7.199)
  
• There's a 13.89% or 5 out of 36 chance of hitting the left arm (or roughly 1 out of 7.199)
  
• There's a 11.11% or 1 out of 9 chance of hitting the right leg
  
• There's a 11.11% or 1 out of 9 chance of hitting the left leg
  
• There's a 13.89% or 5 out of 36 chance of hitting the right torso (or roughly 1 out of 7.199)
  
• There's a 13.89% or 5 out of 36 chance of hitting the left torso (or roughly 1 out of 7.199)
  
• There's a 19.45% or 1 out of 5.14 chance of hitting the center torso
  
• There's a 2.78% or 1 out of 36 chance of hitting the cockpit

Here's the table that gives the data that the above is derived from:






The basic, tournament level hit-location tables, if memory serves, remove the ability to hit the rear torso sections on side shots.

And here's the hit-location table for bipedal 'Mechs lying on the ground (or quad 'Mechs standing):



Now the advanced hit-location mechanics:

Called Shots:

Uses four tables: Call high-low, and Call left-right. Attempting to make a Called Shot adds another +3 to the to-hit number that must be overcome. This means that less of your shots will hit, but those that do hit will concentrate into a smaller area.

Called high:

• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the left arm
  
• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the right arm
  
• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the left torso
  
• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the center torso
  
• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the right torso
  
• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the cockpit

(Yes, this means that if anyone tells you that if you that if you aim at his cockpit, you can hit his foot ... they're wrong.)



Called Low:

• A 33.34% or 2 out of 6 chance of hitting the right leg
  
• A 33.34% or 2 out of 6 chance of hitting the left leg
  
• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the right torso
  
• A 16.67% or 1 out of 6 chance of hitting the left torso

Here's the table for Called Shots aimed high/aimed low.





For Called Shots Left or Right:
You use the normal hit-tables, except you have a +3 modifier, and you use the column one section over from where you would normally aim... for instance, if you call a shot left against a target standing directly in front of you ("in your front arc"), facing you , you use the "left" column on the basic hit table.

Called Left/Right (for a target that it squarely in front of you):

• A 19.44% or 1 out of 5.14 chance of hitting the left/right arm
  
• A 19.45% or 1 out of 5.14 chance of hitting the left/right torso
  
• A 19.45% or 1 out of 5.14 chance of hitting the left/right leg
  
• A 13.89% or 5 out of 36 chance of hitting the center torso (or roughly 1 out of 7.199)
  
• A 11.11% or 1 out of 9 chance of hitting the right torso
  
• A 8.33% or 1 out of 12 chance of hitting the right arm
  
• A 5.56% or 1 out of 18 chance of hitting the right leg
  
• A 2.78% or 1 out of 36 chance of hitting the cockpit

Called Left or Called Right for targets that are "side on" towards you:

• A 19.44% or 1 out of 5.14 chance of hitting the left/right arm
  
• A 19.45% or 1 out of 5.14 chance of hitting the left/right torso
  
• A 19.45% or 1 out of 5.14 chance of hitting the left/right leg
  
• A 13.89% or 5 out of 36 chance of hitting the rear center torso (or roughly 1 out of 7.199)
  
• A 11.11% or 1 out of 9 chance of hitting the rear right torso
  
• A 8.33% or 1 out of 12 chance of hitting the right arm
  
• A 5.56% or 1 out of 18 chance of hitting the right leg
  
• A 2.78% or 1 out of 36 chance of hitting the cockpit

This table is used for calling shots Left/Right against a 'Mech with it's front facing directly at you or it's back facing directly at you - no access to-hit the sides of the 'Mech.

If, for example, your target's left or right side is facing you, and you want to aim left/right you use the Advanced hit table, posted above (which gives you a chance to-hit their rear torsos) ... or not, if you don't want that deadly of a TT game.

Aimed Shots:

An Aimed shot is the occasion when a 'Mech without an advanced Targeting Computer can get more of it's weapons to-hit what it's pilot has under the reticule. Without a TC Aimed shots are only possible versus immobile targets, and only direct fire weapons and non-cluster ammunition types are usable for this. The other weapons that don't work for this simply use the normal hit-table against immobile targets.

The to-hit modifier for an immobile target is -4 (-5 if you have a TC) if you try and target any part other than the cockpit; cockpit aimed shots have a +3 to-hit modifier (A TC does not affect the cockpit to-hit). After it is determined how many of your shots connect, all weapons that roll a 6, 7, or 8 on 2d6 hit the location you've chosen.

That's a 44.45% hit percentage or roughly 1 out of 2.25 BASIC chance to hit the specific section under the reticule ... just about twice as good a chance as you can get using anything OTHER than an aimed shot.

If you don't roll a 6,7, or 8 you don't automatically hit the specific location you aimed for. Instead, you roll on the appropriate normal (non-called) hit-location table which can result in hitting the section you targeted anyways - pick an easier part to aim at, and your chances are good it will still be hit - and remember, this is TT armor values VS. TT weapons damage values AND the TT penetrating hits/internal damage setup.

Being immobile on a battlefield = the grim reaper is now your new best friend forever.

A 'Mech is considered immobile if it is shut down, it's pilot is unconscious, if it is bracing an arm to try and make a hard shot, if it is hooked to a coolant truck, or is having it's ammo reloaded. Quad 'Mechs that have lost 3 or 4 legs are considered immobile. A bipedal 'Mech that has lost both legs and both arms is considered immobile. "Immobile" equates to a unit not being able to move on it's own at all.

The Advanced Targeting Computer & Aimed Shots vs Mobile targets:

A TC consists of an advanced computer that is far more powerful than the standard BattleMech T&T suite - it is able to adjust for many more variables far more quickly. A TC is not just an advanced computer suite, it also employs recoil compensators, gyroscopic stabilizers, and other hardware attached to the various direct-fire weapons systems mounted in a 'Mech. These components help to overcome weapons drift, muzzle recoil on kinetic weapons, and any erratic targeting inputs induced by the MechWarrior.

The size and weight of a TC is directly proportional to the weight of all 'Mech-scale heavy weapons it is connected to. Inner Sphere TC's equal the total weapons weight divided by four, clan TC's divide by 5, and both take up a number of criticals (internal spaces) equal to the calculated tonnage of the TC (rounding up at half tons). Yes, they can get VERY heavy and large quite quickly... no free lunches!

The differences between a normal Aimed Shot vs an Immobile target and an Aimed Shot against a mobile target using a TC is that there is a +3 to-hit modifier, and it is not possible use this against the cockpit on a mobile target. Otherwise, all of the other rules for an Aimed Shot apply. TC aimed shots vs mobile targets are very useful for chiseling a specific part off; even though you can't hit the cockpit and the shot is roughly 3% harder to make.

As should already be obvious ... anyone standing still and thus giving you the -1 modifier can be severely punished for standing still on a battlefield. Movement = life ... even for fully armored and heavily armed assault 'Mechs.

Using a TC to utilize the aimed shot mechanic vs a specific location on a mobile target in game requires turning this function on. With this function off, a 'Mech with a TC behaves just like a 'Mech without one, except you have the advantage of a -1 to-hit modifier for most direct fire weapons types in the vast majority of situations.

There are more rules that touch on this, but that ought to be MORE than enough for you to chew on ATM.

Edited by Pht, 06 December 2013 - 11:42 AM.