7 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

The Long Tom is available from 3012+

The translation to MWO would be pretty (conceptually) easy to implement, not much different from MW4.
Although it might make it more interesting if you added a "Charge count" to the weapon to determine the range and TTT (Time to Target).

Would give it a challenge factor (rather than point and click for big boom) and also give it adaptability.
Example uses:
Large Charge/High trajectory: Hitting that pesky LRM boat or jumpsniper hiding behind the rock or crystals. (Stationary terrain protected targets)
Large Charge/Low trajectory: Hitting the group of mechs at distance that are in between cover for a brief period or mechs that are moving. (Time constraint targets)
Small Charge/High trajectory: Small lobs, like from one canyon to an adjacent canyon in Canyon network. (Short range indirect)
Small Charge/Low Trajectory: Dropping short lobs from higher terrain. (Like being on top of a ridge in Terra Therma and dropping the shell towards the bottom of the ridge at an angle your mech elevation couldn't reach.)

And ofcourse, intermediate charges: Small, Small-Mid, Mid-Large, Large Charges.

Fitting it to your mech!:
It takes 15 slots, so obviously you can't just fit it in your torso like an AC20. Simple (but not necessarily tech-easy) suggestion: Mount it in Torso to take 8 slots in torso, automatically remove appropriate actuators in arm (to immobilize it) and put the excess crit spaces in the arm. Limits the trajectory to that of the torso, rightfully so IMO.

Targeting!:
Predetermined arcs/flight paths according to charge count. UI added elevation number to precision of .1 degrees for simplicity. (0.1,0.2, 0.3..) or even .5 degrees if .1 is too crowded. No computer help, no map targetting, obviously not homing. Something learned with planning and skill. (I know it's possible, back in MW4 I mastered the elevation to range ratio and had a buddy that spotted a target for me, shut down so I couldn't see it on the map, he gave me his location, his deflection (that number at the top of your UI, currently in degrees) and I was able to land the first shell right in front of the target and walk the next one right between the Flea's legs. And that was without the elevation UI.)

This weapon would be a siege-breaker. Most 12mans I've been in bog down to a couple of jump-sniping/hill humping firing lines wearing the teams down until either one makes a successful flank, or the teams have suffered attrition to the point where enough mechs are destroyed to make a reasonable overpowering advance. Missiles, while indirect, have two problems with them in regards to dealing with this scenario: 1st, they require locks to be effective at all, and 2nd, they give the enemy a warning about incoming effectively rendering them useless outside of 400 meters.

Countermeasures!
Since we've taken liberties with modules and equipment, I would add one more functionality to BAP based on a technology we used in Iraq. Once a mortar shell or rocket reached a certain altitude (and angle) based on radar the FOB would give us a warning to take cover. (Specifics not available.)
Proposition: Mechs with BAP would receive a warning that a high angle shell (say, altitude of 50 meters for simplicity's sake) was detected. It wouldn't say where, or aimed at who, just that one's in the air. (You can look up to see it..)

Stats:
Tabletop stats for size, heat, and tonnage, and damage- give it a small splash. Give the ammo an appropriate boost according to the increased armor.
TT Range is maxed at about 750 meters, since everything in this game is doubled or tripled, I would set the maximum range (on equal ground) to 2000 meters. (High Charge, optimum elevation) with a minimum range of 400 meters. The minimum range, in order to make sense, would be minimum in a similar sense to the (former) PPC, in the form of a safety. (Real life mortar rounds have a minimum amount of rotations before they arm, as a safety against "short rounds.")

Projectile Speed: 2 options- Fixed Speed, or speed based on Charge.
Option 1: Standard 700 MPS.
Option 2: 500MPS-600MPS-700MPS-800MPS

At 401 meters, full HE damage. 400 and below would deal kinetic damage of say.. 6 pts. Still makes sense, and could be used as a last ditch point defense.


Thoughts?

Edited by Livewyr, 06 December 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Oppresor]

I could seriously find a use for the Long Tom. PGI Please can we have this weapon.

[Arctcwolf]

Long tom should require same slots as AC20, but weigh more.

Also, no need to tweaking trajectory other than high pass/low pass. the mech targeting should handle the rest.

Also should have same minimum range as LRM's. Otherwise u would see long toms to the face of assaults regularly.

ammo should be concussive or shrapnel based. Concussion for dealing very heavy damage to a single target. shrapnel for dealing light/moderate damage to targets within an area. I'd say 100m radius would be proper...giving more than 625 sq. meters of area within the circle to deal damage, closer to center=more damage taken. shrapnel can be given same crit hit modifiers as machine guns and LBX.

[orcrist86]

The long tom is a piece of artillery with a range measures in "Boards". Its not really meant to be mech mounted it was designed for tanks and dropships. The smaller artillery might fit a mech, but again, its not designed for ranges closer than a kilometer.

[Livewyr]

Arctcwolf, on 06 December 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Long tom should require same slots as AC20, but weigh more.

For the amount of power it has, and the range I suggest, it needs to have weaknesses that make it more defined in its role, including disabling 1/4 the mech (the arm).

Arctcwolf, on 06 December 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Also, no need to tweaking trajectory other than high pass/low pass. the mech targeting should handle the rest.

The last thing we need for something that powerful is "point and click" simplicity. We already have that problem with AC/PPC boats.

Arctcwolf, on 06 December 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Also should have same minimum range as LRM's. Otherwise u would see long toms to the face of assaults regularly.

You should actually read my post.. I said 400 meters. (with a little bit of point defense damage)

Arctcwolf, on 06 December 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

ammo should be concussive or shrapnel based. Concussion for dealing very heavy damage to a single target. shrapnel for dealing light/moderate damage to targets within an area. I'd say 100m radius would be proper...giving more than 625 sq. meters of area within the circle to deal damage, closer to center=more damage taken. shrapnel can be given same crit hit modifiers as machine guns and LBX.

I don't disagree with the concept (though I don't think it necessary.) However, 100m radius would be ridiculous, especially at shorter range.

orcrist86, on 06 December 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

The long tom is a piece of artillery with a range measures in "Boards". Its not really meant to be mech mounted it was designed for tanks and dropships. The smaller artillery might fit a mech, but again, its not designed for ranges closer than a kilometer.

http://www.sarna.net...Long_Tom_Cannon

[Oppresor]

"The long tom is a piece of artillery with a range measures in "Boards". Its not really meant to be mech mounted it was designed for tanks and dropships. The smaller artillery might fit a mech, but again, its not designed for ranges closer than a kilometer."

That's fine by me, I am a Sniper so would probably use it at max range against opportune targets.

[Kataiser]

I'm tired of hearing the Long Tom argument. The weapon wouldn't be balanced, doesn't make any sense for the game, and would only be practical on two maps, rendering them completely useless in most drops. The LT cannons are technically more practical, but they completely invalidate LRMs. TBolts would do the same role without being stupid. And the LT Arty is not going to be in at all, ever, before anyone says anything.

Please stop asking for this weapon that would not be good for the game. I would rather see HVACs than Long Toms, because at least those don't overshadow other weapons.

[Livewyr]

Kataiser, on 07 December 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I'm tired of hearing the Long Tom argument. The weapon wouldn't be balanced, doesn't make any sense for the game, and would only be practical on two maps, rendering them completely useless in most drops. The LT cannons are technically more practical, but they completely invalidate LRMs. TBolts would do the same role without being stupid. And the LT Arty is not going to be in at all, ever, before anyone says anything.

Please stop asking for this weapon that would not be good for the game. I would rather see HVACs than Long Toms, because at least those don't overshadow other weapons.

A: "And the LT Arty is not going to be in at all, ever, before anyone says anything." I seem to remember a dev (or several) saying the same thing about 3PV.. yet "Here it is!" (Along with coolant flush and whatever else would "never be in.")

B: No, it wouldn't invalidate LRMs.. it doesn't track and would be rather difficult to use, especially on moving targets.. (Unlike the Not-so-broken PPCs that require magic ghost-heat to balance.. or the Gauss that requires a "charge" to balance...)

C: It would make a viable counter to the "Jump- fire 2PPCS/2AC5s-Drop back and repeat" Meta.

D: Why do people keep thinking I'm talking about the Artillery Piece? One [Edit] could probably come up with "He's talking about mounting it to the mech, he's probably not talking about the artillery vehicle.. maybe he's talking about the Snub Nose Long Tom Cannon!"

(Edited for increased kindness)

Edited by Livewyr, 07 December 2013 - 05:28 PM.