95 replies to this topic

[BlackDrakon]

dude, u had respect for an atlas back in the day, u see one in front, u run. Right now, I see locust killing atlas, coz the srms dont hit lights and ur AC/20 doesnt register damage. I was able to blow up a jenner in movement with my 5 SRM6's Stalker, I could strip down an atlas with it.

Right now they do nothing, they are dead weigth in you brawler and skirmisher.

Check 12 mans, there is a very low population of SRM mechs, all you see is Shadowhawks, Jenners, Highlanders and Victors. When u find drop with more than 2 Atlas and hunchbacks, they are just meat for the ppc grinder.

[aniviron]

Lefty Lucy, on 06 December 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Even if hit detection were fixed SRMs spread too much to be effective compared to pin point damage.

Nah, when SRMs actually deal damage (as opposed to not dealing damage, like they do (or fail to do) now) they're pretty great. At 2.5 damage per missile, the SRM6 was dealing as much damage as a gauss rifle with every shot, and that made it one hell of a weapon to be feared. The reason it was balanced is that it has 13% of the max range, spreads damage, generates quite a bit of heat, has a slow projectile, and goes through ammo like you wouldn't believe.

[OneEyed Jack]

YueFei, on 06 December 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

The problem with splash damage is that it was radius-based, so on smaller mech models it was massively unfair, the overlapping splash spheres were completely wrecking them.

No, the problem was that they were doing way more total damage than the 2.5 they were set at. If they could have been set to do the assigned damage max, just splitting it up between affected areas, splash would have been fine.

[YueFei]

OneEyed Jack, on 07 December 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

No, the problem was that they were doing way more total damage than the 2.5 they were set at. If they could have been set to do the assigned damage max, just splitting it up between affected areas, splash would have been fine.

And it was doing more than the total damage because the splash radius was overlapping all these different hit boxes.

Doing it the way you suggested is arbitrary. Your SRM scores a direct hit on a Commando's left arm. However, the Commando's head, left torso, left leg, and center torso are all within the splash radius of the missile.

How do you divide that damage up so it all totals up to 2.5? You'd think the contact detonation should be 100% of the damage. But you're going to arbitrarily divide up the percentages based on what? Are you going to hard-cap the contact damage at 50%? What about when it strikes larger mechs? You hit an Atlas in the left arm, your splash radius is within 3 meters of his left side torso. But compare that with the Commando, where your splash radius is within 1 meter of his left side torso, 3 meters of his left leg, 2 meters from his head and center torso. How do you divide the splash damage based on the distance of each component from the center of the blast?

It's much *easier* and more consistent to simply do a damage transfer mechanic. It works and is easier to calculate and works across all chassis and all hitbox sizes.

[White Panther]

I agree, there was one point in the meta months and months ago where yes the ppc/gauss was really good but we had srm's and streaks that were really good as well. During that short period there was a number of different things one could do. You could sit back and poptart all you want but if you let a splatcat for example get too close then you've made a serious mistake. The sniping and brawling game were both devastating.

[Training Instructor]

Take a six to nine month break, and you'll realign yourself with PGI. Their time scale for changing anything is glacial.

[Kin3ticX]

If SRMs are back to where you can dogfight with them, they are in the right spot. I am not talking about damage, mostly just spread, velocity, and hit registration.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Meh...its whatever, they will fix it when they fix it I suppose.
They are poor atm and are to be avoided. Sad as I ever so rarely get to run my Atlas builds being that I refuse to play them w/lrms or streaks.
But again, its whatever there are plenty of effective builds for me to play in the meantime. However it will be nice when they do get to fixing them.
Honestly I am more interested and put more priority into the introduction of lobbies and CW's. If getting those sooner rather than later means putting srm issues on the back shelf then so be it.

[Noesis]

+1, SRMs are very much needed to restore faith in the short game and for some Mech variants that rely on these to add the punch weaponry it means they are simply under tarpaulin for now. The forthcoming Wolverine being one example.

[Silentium]

I love SRMs, and I miss them. My 4SP wants to live again!

[CrashieJ]

Blurry, on 06 December 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

They are fixed - it is everything else that is broken
but UI 2.0 will make it all better

yep because slapping a new coat of paint on a rust bucket of a car qualifies it as a "new model"

|:

[OneEyed Jack]

YueFei, on 07 December 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

And it was doing more than the total damage because the splash radius was overlapping all these different hit boxes.

Doing it the way you suggested is arbitrary. Your SRM scores a direct hit on a Commando's left arm. However, the Commando's head, left torso, left leg, and center torso are all within the splash radius of the missile.

How do you divide that damage up so it all totals up to 2.5? You'd think the contact detonation should be 100% of the damage. But you're going to arbitrarily divide up the percentages based on what? Are you going to hard-cap the contact damage at 50%? What about when it strikes larger mechs? You hit an Atlas in the left arm, your splash radius is within 3 meters of his left side torso. But compare that with the Commando, where your splash radius is within 1 meter of his left side torso, 3 meters of his left leg, 2 meters from his head and center torso. How do you divide the splash damage based on the distance of each component from the center of the blast?

It's much *easier* and more consistent to simply do a damage transfer mechanic. It works and is easier to calculate and works across all chassis and all hitbox sizes.

Um..... you divide by percentage. If you hit a small mech and the blast hits three areas for X, Y and Z percent of the blast, they take X, Y, and Z percent of the damage. If you hit a larger mech, and one location takes the entire blast, it takes 100% of the damage.

Is that really so confusing to you?

[BlackDrakon]

The problem resides in the fact that they are unusable right now, a complete weapon system that is broken. As stated by the OP there was a time where you will pay the price of a brawling mech to get near you if u are a poptart.

You could poptart, but situational awereness had to be on top. Thats what it makes the game more interesting, and thats when you autobalance the game, making other mechs better by fixing their weapons.

Edited by BlackDrakon, 07 December 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

BlackDrakon, on 06 December 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

I see a lot of new stuff, ui2.0, direct X, new mechs, clan tech headsup, etc.etc.etc.

But, srms? when?

After Ghost heat, the current meta is still the same, you nerfed the gauss, added ghost heat, and still, you see poptart online with 2 ppc's and 2 UAC/5, or 2 ppc's and 2 AC/5, or 2 ppc's and an AC/20 (which sux with the hit detection, its great when it registers though) etc.

So, SRMS? why do I keep asking for it? Because if you fix the Hit Detection for the SRM's they will be viable again. You will have mediums back in the game, and we will have brawls again.

The meta will swift into a more balanced drop with true skirmish and brawlers, poptart will be around, but not preodminant as they are now.

We are all excited of what is coming (CW somewhere in time), but, we need to get the weapons we have in perfect shape, to a point where the balance will come naturally thx to the weapons working as intended.

There are a lot of suggestions on how to "balance" the meta, engines, conversion, etc. But the most simple of all is this, FIX SRMS, bring them back to 2.5 damage per missile and make them register the damage as it should, im not even asking to make artemis work on them with the spiral effect, just fix the Hit Detection, make them register and put them back to 2.5. You will see how the meta slowly changes to what it should be; a balanced fight more brawling and less poptart.

You wont have splatcats anymore coz they will suffer from the ghost heat, so there is no real excuse on not fixing them.

<S>

Man, I do not get this. At all. I keep seeing these post where people complain. Is it that people think it's viable to take on other mechs 1v3 and win if they just had everything in perfect working order or is it the style of game play?

I use srms rather continuously, with a relatively bad ping and I don't seem to have a problem. At times I absolutely miss with my SRMs, sometimes I can lead to a position I know they're going to run into and hit but whenever shots don't register I tend to blame myself and just keep moving along.

Is the issue really that bad or am I having a singular experience where it's not that big of an issue? I am really confused. I just don't understand.

[YueFei]

OneEyed Jack, on 07 December 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Um..... you divide by percentage. If you hit a small mech and the blast hits three areas for X, Y and Z percent of the blast, they take X, Y, and Z percent of the damage. If you hit a larger mech, and one location takes the entire blast, it takes 100% of the damage.

Is that really so confusing to you?

Percentage based is NOT radius-based. Which is what I was talking about when you objected in the first place.

And how do you divide X, Y, and Z areas based on percentage? In the Commando example, if the left torso is 1 meter away, the leg is 3 meters away, and the CT and Head are 2 meters away.... what do? Arbitrarily decide that the left arm takes 50% damage just because it's at 0 meters? Then figure that the left torso should take 25%, just because....? And then give the CT 10%, the head 10%, and the left leg 5%? How do you plug distance from blast radius into that equation? Whatever numbers you come up with will be arbitrary, and inconsistent across different chassis.

And what the hell do you gain with such complexity? It doesn't add to the gameplay meaningfully. Just make it a damage transfer mechanic and be done with it!

[BlackDrakon]

There is no splash damage anymore though, so why even bother going there?

No splash damage, and ghost heat are here now, so, why not fixing them?

[Sephlock]

Daisu Saikoro, on 07 December 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Man, I do not get this. At all. I keep seeing these post where people complain. Is it that people think it's viable to take on other mechs 1v3 and win if they just had everything in perfect working order or is it the style of game play?

I use srms rather continuously, with a relatively bad ping and I don't seem to have a problem. At times I absolutely miss with my SRMs, sometimes I can lead to a position I know they're going to run into and hit but whenever shots don't register I tend to blame myself and just keep moving along.

Is the issue really that bad or am I having a singular experience where it's not that big of an issue? I am really confused. I just don't understand.

It's not that bad.

Maybe they could use a slight buff- or maybe the people complaining are suffering more packet loss despite having decent pings?

[BlackDrakon]

It is bad, thats why we have so many poptarts and pinpoint damage meta! There is no real reason to pack srms coz they are not equal as their pinpoint damage counterparts.....

Its all about balance, if they are as strong as they were, mediums and brawling are back in the game.

[Sephlock]

The solution is to give SRMs weak guidance, like they have in TT .

[aniviron]

YueFei, on 07 December 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

And it was doing more than the total damage because the splash radius was overlapping all these different hit boxes.

Doing it the way you suggested is arbitrary. Your SRM scores a direct hit on a Commando's left arm. However, the Commando's head, left torso, left leg, and center torso are all within the splash radius of the missile.

How do you divide that damage up so it all totals up to 2.5? You'd think the contact detonation should be 100% of the damage. But you're going to arbitrarily divide up the percentages based on what? Are you going to hard-cap the contact damage at 50%? What about when it strikes larger mechs? You hit an Atlas in the left arm, your splash radius is within 3 meters of his left side torso. But compare that with the Commando, where your splash radius is within 1 meter of his left side torso, 3 meters of his left leg, 2 meters from his head and center torso. How do you divide the splash damage based on the distance of each component from the center of the blast?

It's much *easier* and more consistent to simply do a damage transfer mechanic. It works and is easier to calculate and works across all chassis and all hitbox sizes.

While I know what you're saying makes a lot of sense, and if I were in charge of the game I would do it your way, SRMs now work like OneEyed Jack suggests. This was confirmed a while ago when it was explained that artillery shells do 40 damage per shell, and that they use a splash radius like SRMs. When asked what happened if a single shell hit multiple components and the damage would have totaled 40, the answer was that the damage gets capped at 40 and split between hit locations, although I do not know the method for splitting the damage.

Either way, arguing about splash is pretty much moot at this point anyway, as each SRM has a 5cm splash radius now (or did, as of the last time SRMs went through iteration), compared to more than 5m during their heyday.