90 replies to this topic

[Shadelen]

Something I have noticed as of late is I watch a lot of Heavies and assaults just sit in the back while mediums and lights are going in first.I understand lights have the speed to do so and should.They are scouts but medium mechs are a niche of balance but Im tired of the actual mechs with more armor just sitting in the back.Then others will complain theres to many missles. Well maybe the Heavys and assault should lead in liek there suppose to and close the gap to Make Lrms pointless.

But this concept is apparently to much to Grasp.I understand if your a missile boat but when I have laser boats and AC Heavy and assault Mechs just sitting in the back and everyone is dieing because no one will tactically make the lrms useless by moving forward and then complain because we lose.

[Reitrix]

Had a fun match on Tourmaline in my Founder Atlas yesterday. both teams were kinda hiding behind cover within 200 meters of each other. So im like, screw this, CHAAAAAAAAAAARGE! 64kmph Atlas into 8 enemy 'Mechs!

And imagine my surprise when my whole team actually moved in behind to support said charge, to the point where i not only made it out the other side without even losing a limb despite coming under attacking by all 8 'Mechs, but we even won the match. lol.

So worry not. There Assaults and Heavies who 'Tank' the enemy team.

Edited by Reitrix, 08 December 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[fandre]

I'm playing Hunchbacks and Jaggers and for me it is annoying to see heavier mechs waiting in cover or miss a good time to push. There are IMO also mech pilots in e.g. Atlas mechs which hesitate to go into combat leaving lighter mechs as the brawlers in the field. But I enjoy the times, where I can succesfully lead a team of PUGS into combat.

In my ELO-range LRM combat is very seldom.

Edited by fandre, 08 December 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Sephlock]

The problem is you need to be able to rely on your teammates to capitalize on your brief window of damage sponging time, like this, as opposed to what usually happens in a pug.

[XX Sulla XX]

Well after waiting for the perfect time and then starting the charge in an Atlas only to have your pug team not follow is kinda makes you wait. Then to do this literally hundreds of times you think forget them. I will wait to they are engaged and cant back out to help. Because the thing is in an Atlas you get one shot. You are two slow to recover and you die very quickly of two or three mechs concentrate fire on you. On the other hand a light or medium normally have the speed to get back out.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Shadelen, on 08 December 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Well maybe the Heavys and assault should lead in liek there suppose to and close the gap to Make Lrms pointless.

Well in theory that is nice. In reality however not so much. If pugging in an assault and push often you end up alone and dying as the rest of the team ran off. So unless in a organized 12 man group it is not worth it to run out ahead as puggies are not to be trusted.
Not only that but a great many assaults are sniper builds which in most situations should not be running out to lead the pack, unless again w/others known to be trusted by your side you can get away with it.

[Asmudius Heng]

As people have said it requires co-ordination.

Though in a 4 man group i still think you can do it well not just 12 mans. If you can cajole just a few other puggers to help its AMAZING how much better off you are.

[Mystere]

xMEPHISTOx, on 08 December 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Well in theory that is nice. In reality however not so much. If pugging in an assault and push often you end up alone and dying as the rest of the team ran off. So unless in a organized 12 man group it is not worth it to run out ahead as puggies are not to be trusted.

You're right about PUGs. I have had many "Banzai!"( ) charges in which my teammates chose to chicken out of. Fortunately for me though, some of those times I've been able to kill 2-3 of the enemy before dying myself -- in a Pretty Baby no less, and with the enemy looking like deer staring at fog lights ( ). And now that we have useful artillery strikes, I have something I can use as a last act of spite and defiance. Kamikaze!


By the way, from what movie is that animation in your sig?

[xMEPHISTOx]

Mystere, on 08 December 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

By the way, from what movie is that animation in your sig?

Shogun Assasin.

http://en.wikipedia....Shogun_Assassin

Was a Kuritan for over 20 years before going over to Clans (), so keep w/the tradition.


***Edited for addition.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 08 December 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[Justy Starflare]

OK. Until you start paying for me to play (premium time) don't tell me how to play my heavies or assaults.
I don't know how many times I've been in an assault with a group of pugs and pushed only to get left all alone because someone shot at them and then I get left with my @$$ hanging out.
So you might now understand why your assaults are hanging back. Just in case you haven't
Figured it out its because we are waiting to see if you light and mediums are going to commit.

Edited by Justy Starflare, 08 December 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Asmosis]

Assault mechs are not there to tank/absorb damage for you. They can take maybe 1 ppc or laser blast more than you can to a section, but after that they are just as "weak" as a heavy mech, moreso because they move a lot slower. Basically they have about 1/2 a second extra survival time when they come under heavy fire.

heck, just take a look at a jenner. it has half the armor of an atlas. Thats right, you take two jenners and you have the same armor coverage as an atlas in 1/3 of the space (and 70% of the tonnage). The also pack about the same effective DPS as an assault mech.

Truth is its nobodies job to "lead the charge" since in pug games everyone else plays "wait and see". If that solo leader dies, then obvously the charge would have failed if everyone else joined in.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Asmosis, on 08 December 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

Assault mechs are not there to tank/absorb damage for you. They can take maybe 1 ppc or laser blast more than you can to a section, but after that they are just as "weak" as a heavy mech, moreso because they move a lot slower. Basically they have about 1/2 a second extra survival time when they come under heavy fire.

heck, just take a look at a jenner. it has half the armor of an atlas. Thats right, you take two jenners and you have the same armor coverage as an atlas in 1/3 of the space (and 70% of the tonnage). The also pack about the same effective DPS as an assault mech.

Truth is its nobodies job to "lead the charge" since in pug games everyone else plays "wait and see". If that solo leader dies, then obvously the charge would have failed if everyone else joined in.

Jenners are smaller, but you are mistaken about your numbers.

They can have equal DPS, but the Jenner only has that DPS under 400m, not like an atlas which has DPS at all ranges.

Atlas has a max armor of 124 on the CT and 614 over all. Jenner has 34 and 238. Thats about 35% of the armor and suprise, 35 tons is 35% of 100 tons.

[Fooooo]

I've had a few times where we were pinned somewhere and nobody wanted to push through.

So I just pushed through fully twisted so most were just hitting my pretty much max armor atlas arms (not all were hitting my arms tho as I had a ST with no armor by the end of the run. ) and kept moving until I got to this bit of cover where they couldnt really hit me anymore.

During that time the friendlys had pushed out with me and taken out 1 or 2 of the enemy (as the enemy was focused on me mainly), they then came to where I was and others then lead a charge...........basically we won the match from there. (I didnt do much else in the match as I was pretty much dead + lost my AC in the charge but I followed up and supported etc....)

Doesnt always happen like this tho Usually its Charge and im dead with no suppresive fire from friendlys at all.

Edited by Fooooo, 09 December 2013 - 01:55 AM.

[Der Hesse]

I can feel Justay Starflares pain. As a pug-player that happened often enough to me too.

In theory its the job of assaults to be in the first row. But in MWO-pugs it often leads to your isolated death because there is not second row but just some snipers hiding 500m behind you and risking some peeking and snipershots from their armweapons while you get shred into pieces by concentrated fire.

Though i had some of the best fights and most glorious victories too while leading on a brave Attack in my DDC.

So my advice for Shadelen ist to follow an assault into an attack whenever he sees it happen. When some follow him, the rest will do it too and it will be a glourious carnival of carnage. Maybe this will become a trend and we will see more assaults doing their Job in future. Otherwise play in Premade. Even with only one lance attacking coordinated you can decide a match.

My tactics when i feel like doing an Assault in a pug is to tell the Team right in the beginning where i will go to in my DDC. Often enough they follow me even if its just for the ECM-cover. My DDC is very slow so its no problem for the others to stay grouped around me. When i go this way i nearly never stop, even if that means to run straight through the enemys defense-line. Often enough they just scatter in every direction and my following teammates can take them out easily. Its fun to watch and i always get my share of kills.

[Rhent]

OP I don't think you understand some basic strategies in the game as it is now played. One basic strategy is to focus fire on a single target. Nothing makes my day more than an ***** mech who leads the charge, why? Because I just got a guaranteed assist or kill.

Instead, you send in a fast moving light to harrass their rear lines and to get an ***** to chase the light into the open to be cut down. See above.

The name of the game is to use cover and hit your enemies, not wade out into the open and die in 5 seconds.

[stjobe]

Justy Starflare, on 08 December 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

So you might now understand why your assaults are hanging back. Just in case you haven't Figured it out its because we are waiting to see if you light and mediums are going to commit.

So let me get this straight: The well-armed and -armoured assault is waiting for the lightly-armed and -armoured lights and mediums to charge instead of the other way around? Seems bass-ackwards to me.

I suspect it's more of a KDR-protection thing than anything else. Can't let that KDR drop, now can we?

[Elder Thorn]

Shadelen, on 08 December 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Something I have noticed as of late is I watch a lot of Heavies and assaults just sit in the back while mediums and lights are going in first.I understand lights have the speed to do so and should.They are scouts but medium mechs are a niche of balance but Im tired of the actual mechs with more armor just sitting in the back.Then others will complain theres to many missles. Well maybe the Heavys and assault should lead in liek there suppose to and close the gap to Make Lrms pointless.

But this concept is apparently to much to Grasp.I understand if your a missile boat but when I have laser boats and AC Heavy and assault Mechs just sitting in the back and everyone is dieing because no one will tactically make the lrms useless by moving forward and then complain because we lose.

stjobe, on 09 December 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

So let me get this straight: The well-armed and -armoured assault is waiting for the lightly-armed and -armoured lights and mediums to charge instead of the other way around? Seems bass-ackwards to me.

I suspect it's more of a KDR-protection thing than anything else. Can't let that KDR drop, now can we?

in a pug you often charge in and die horribly and then get yelled at by your team for running in there like an *****. So you just died, wasted time and had no fun at all.

In addition Assaults aren't as durable as they were during closed beta IMO. With every new Mech in the game, the Atlas for example got a harder time to do it's job. I am not saying the Atlas is useless, because it isn't, it's has just become harder to be the tank and as said above, in a pug you will die and look like an ***** 90% of the time, so why bother?

Edited by Elder Thorn, 09 December 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[Mawai]

Although I am sure there are a lot of mechs that hang back .. LRM DDCs are one example that might be more useful in an assault rather than a support role ... the other issue is the medium pilots themselves. Whenever a PUG match starts, most folks run toward the enemy looking for opponents. Medium and light mechs are typically much faster than heavies and assaults. Even if the heavier mechs want to be in front, often the mediums don't let them since they don't want to wait for the slower mechs to catch up.

It is all part of working as a team .. and it is not solely a heavy or assault issue. If you want heavy/assault brawler mechs to lead the charge then they need to have a chance to actually catch up.

[stjobe]

Elder Thorn, on 09 December 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

in a pug you often charge in and die horribly and then get yelled at by your team for running in there like an *****. So you just died, wasted time and had no fun at all.

In addition Assaults aren't as durable as they were during closed beta IMO. With every new Mech in the game, the Atlas for example got a harder time to do it's job. I am not saying the Atlas is useless, because it isn't, it's has just become harder to be the tank and as said above, in a pug you will die and look like an ***** 90% of the time, so why bother?

I haven't played assaults very much, but if one says "I'm going in, follow me", my experience is that most of the time the PUG actually follows and victory is achieved.

If you don't say anything, just charge, yeah you're going to die like the ****** **** you are.

[Elder Thorn]

Mawai, on 09 December 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Although I am sure there are a lot of mechs that hang back .. LRM DDCs

LRM DDC.......... for the love of god, please no. Don't do that to my poor Atlas, it loves to cuddle!

stjobe, on 09 December 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

I haven't played assaults very much, but if one says "I'm going in, follow me", my experience is that most of the time the PUG actually follows and victory is achieved.

If you don't say anything, just charge, yeah you're going to die like the ****** **** you are.

That's nice. I actually did not make this experience, and i'd love to.