35 replies to this topic

[dragnier1]

Durant Carlyle, on 08 December 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

According to the lore, Streaks are supposed to hit 100% of the time when you lock on regardless of terrain or evasion attempts, assuming you are in range...

Streaks once used to work like that, ppl cried "op" and it's been nerfed

[Whatzituyah]

dragnier1, on 08 December 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Streaks once used to work like that, ppl cried "op" and it's been nerfed

I can imagine look at this build would you want someone to run around with that?

[IceCase88]

It was not so much the SSRMs were hitting 100% of the time. It was they were hitting the CT almost 100% of the time. The SSRMs hitting pattern right now is a bit goofy but it beats the constantly striking the CT. Until hit registration improves on SRMs the best thing to do as several people have said is to chainfire your SRMs as it helps with the hit registration. I am guessing hit registration is having difficulty handling so many missiles being fired and hitting. I have chainfired my 4 SRM4s on my Oxide and noticed an instant increase in damage and kills.

[FupDup]

Durant Carlyle, on 08 December 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

According to the lore, Streaks are supposed to hit 100% of the time when you lock on regardless of terrain or evasion attempts, assuming you are in range. However, I only have 74.20% accuracy with them in MW:O.

It's more complex than that. How Streaks behaved in TT/lore is that they only fired if they were guaranteed to hit the target. Note that their to-hit chance was identical to normal SRMs. Streaks missed just as often as normal SRMs, the difference is that Streaks didn't consume ammo or generate heat when they missed.

Directly translating that into a game like MWO is probably not possible, though, so an alternate mechanic than lore has to be used.

Edited by FupDup, 08 December 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[aniviron]

Roughneck45, on 08 December 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Thats how SSRMs should have been

Regular SRMs having a lock would be kind of silly though, just from a lore standpoint. What they do need is better hit reg and possibly an increase to missile speed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a softlock from a lore standpoint. SRMs aren't totally unguided, and it does depend on the manufacturer- the only real difference between an SRM and an SSRM is that the SSRM doesn't fire if its guidance control tells the pilot he won't hit (i.e. the die roll says it would have missed). So really, the distinction between locked and unlocked missiles is an arbitrary Mechwarrior thing instead of TT; they could easily have SRMs be guided missiles that just have a much wider spread, for instance, which means they are much less likely to hit the opponent. Please note that I'm not endorsing this idea, just saying that it's not incompatible with the lore.

Bront, on 08 December 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Um, LRMs already do this. You can fire them without a lock, and they go where you pointed them. I've killed shutdown mechs with LRMs. The won't fire without a lock was what made SSRMs unique, and the idea was to conseve ammo (something that SRMS on table top really didn't need)

See, this is a bit unrelated, but I was thinking the post that kicked off this particular discussion with LRMs meant that when dumbfired, the LRMs would track what was under the crosshair as you moved, instead of being dumbfired at a stationary point. Now that would make LRMs useful, if they could home in on your crosshair as it moves even without a lock, albeit with significantly reduced tracking. This would go a long way towards fixing the big problem with LRMs, the hard-counter that is ECM. While it wouldn't be a great method, it means that you can't just get wiped out by a DDC walking across the open at 48kph straight towards you, as you could still dumbfire into him as he moves.

[Goose]

SRMs in MW:O are basically Medium Range Missiles from table-top. I believe this was done to make the game fun and rewarding of skill.

I keep thinking Streaks should moar closely resemble SRMs, only with a velocity of 450~600m/s, and using host-state rewind to veto a bad shot†.

All the Steak boating I've been subjected to is making me rethink having the Craven on Teh List, and how it should have been Streaks all along …




† Thus, when we finally cut a deal with Gabe Newell, we can link the Veto to the Engie Bobble-head …

[dwwolf]

SRMs should be SACLOS. Point and hold reticle to guid the missiles with a toggle for dumbfire if you want to shoot n scoot. Say around 5 degrees per 90 meters. But that guidance should only count to the spread of missile formation not the individual missiles themselves, otherwise you get too much concentration of hits. Artemis should tighten up the initial spread.

Alternatively a softlock system (since ECM shouldnt affect normal SRM functioning) with a similar performance as the saclos system above.

Canon supports SRMs as having guidance in an ECM heavy environment. Semi homing SRMs would go a long way to making them more viable.

MRMs should behave like SRMs are currently with a much more erratic flight pattern however.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The softlock feature for SRM's is still a good idea, but less capable turn radius than their cousins the SSRM's. (possiably only using tail fins rather than dynamic jet steering as the reasoning.)

The additional missile systems that are not yet inserted into this time line (but are available), the Arrow IV systems do use the reticle as a aiming point and follow that for final target/point of destination. It's the targeting system mated to the missile that allows for this to happen. And should be the way the Artimis system was designed for the LRM's to function, no lock on and follow the reticle when in line of sight. (flat trajectory, not what we have now.) The LRM's are fully steerable when there is a lock, so they should be also when directing them when in Artimis mode.

Until we have a correctly functioning NARC system that does all it was designed to do we will not see SRM's operate as they were designed to. They are capable of altering there flight path, not to a great degree, but still can turn to chase the reticle. (now with them having a max range of 270mtrs, we may only want the semi steering to happen after about 100mtrs then look for target/flight changes.)

The MRM's won't be available for a few more years in this time line, and are strictly Dumb fire systems, harder to use, more missiles, smaller, faster and less damage than any of there other similar systems.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 10 December 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[dwwolf]

MRMs would have to be slower than SRMs if the latter aren't changed. Gameplay wise thats almost impossible.

[MacKoga]

I would really like to see NARC implemented to give SRMs temporary homing unto the beacon. It would add interesting team tactics and PUG build options.

[FireSlade]

MacKoga, on 10 December 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

I would really like to see NARC implemented to give SRMs temporary homing unto the beacon. It would add interesting team tactics and PUG build options.

Same, and it might actually be what is needed to make NARC useful for its weight.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference the MRM's:

The missiles are faster than standard LRM in that they give up the guidance components to add a second stage engine booster.

These systems did not appear in the Inner Sphere until the 3058 era. MRMs are dead-fire missiles that are fired more like lasers than missiles.
[the 3058 time line appears to be a turning point in weapons development for the Inner Sphere, many advances in research and knowledge from the Helm Memory Core as well as reverse engineering the Clan tech, brought advanced designs into front line Mechs. Smaller systems, longer range, anything that may give an edge in battles with Clan Mech.'s]
(Designed in response to the Clans invasion, and there bringing in the Streak 2/4/6 systems. As well as the later designed ATM 3/6/9/12 missiles and "Streak LRM's 5/10/15/20")


- In order to pack as many missiles as possible into one salvo, scientists removed guidance systems and made the whole package smaller. The lack of a guidance system and unique nature of MRMs means that they are incompatible with special munitions and advanced guidance systems. Damage = 1/missile.

- 12Tons , 7 Slots, Ammo 6/Ton. (MRM40)
- 10Tons, 5 Slots, Ammo 8/Ton (MRM30) The MRM-30 was designed to be easily swapped in for an LRM20.
- 7Tons, 3 Slots, Ammo 12/Tom (MRM 20) The MRM-20 was designed to be easily swapped in for an LRM15.
- 3Tons, 2 Slots, Ammo 24/Ton MRM 10) The MRM-10 is the lightest and smallest MRM launcher. It was designed to easily be swapped in for an SRM6.


Reference weapons systems: (IS and Clan)
http://www.sarna.net...Equipment_Lists

9erRed

[Training Instructor]

Whatzituyah, on 08 December 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Just a thought wouldn't that make SRMs more like SRRs? "Short Range Rocket"

Well, in military terminology, missiles are guided and rockets are unguided. SRMs fit the description of rockets much better than missile.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Koniving, on 08 December 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

They were. People cried.


One interesting thing to note: SRMs have some guidance. In tabletop all SRMs fired from a single launcher hit the same component. In the original MW5 video, SRM direction was controlled manually by indicating where to have it fire with the targeting crosshair, and since they fired one at a time like bullets, they could be made to do spread patterns for useful things like destroying buildings.


Also, ACs fire much more rapidly and cause 'impulse' in a way that throws off aim. SLs fire like rapid fire guns.

That first video brings back memories of early closed beta with mech bowling for dollars. That second Video is one of the original teaser trailers for MW:O when Smith and Tinker were still involved and there was a brief time when the copy rights were granted, but then taken away again. That second video is not a game play trailer, it is what was used to sell this game to possible investors.

CLANS have SSRMs in all sizes. ssrm2, 4 and 6. and it is one of the first techs fully reverse engineered by the IS.

what's the saying???

oh ya, soon

[dragnier1]

If I remember correctly in btech lore guided srm ammo were distributed in the forth succession war. The Crescent Hawks and Kell Hounds tested it.

Edited by dragnier1, 13 December 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[dwwolf]

Those were special seeker heads. All SRMs have guidance or they wouldnt be capable of accepting the upgraded seeker heads.

from MRM :
Medium Range Missile


Compared to other missile types, Medium Range Missiles are dead-fire missiles that are fired more likeautocannons and lasers, but the removal of guidance systems makes each missile more compact, reducing cost and allowing more missiles to be packed in compared to SRM and LRM launchers of similar size and weight.

Edited by dwwolf, 13 December 2013 - 04:48 PM.