117 replies to this topic

[MagnusEffect]

Educate yourself if you don't know anything about this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen

Short version:
For various reasons, FASA (back in the day) "borrowed" mech designs from various Anime/Manga sources under "ambiguously legal" licensing agreements. The designs made up about half of the selection of mechs at that time and were fairly "conservative" by today's Anime standards; the Battletech fanbase LOVED them. Around the time MW2: Mercs was released, there were legal rumblings between FASA and Harmony Gold on who really held the licensing rights for the US market (maybe all outside Japan, not sure on this). FASA lost and those mechs became the "Unseen". Since then, there have been attempts to redesign them to appease the fans (known as the "Reseen"), but companies involved have found it too much of a headache (also, apparently many fans hated *some* of the redesigns).

Personally, I don't see why they didn't put it to a vote and let the fans pick their favorite designs long ago. It is only the visual design that is the problem. An issue I'm still not sure why it hasn't been solved. My biggest irritation with them missing is NOT because of nostalgia, but some of their weapon configurations are REALLY good. There aren't any other 3025 era mechs that have the same fighting characteristics of the Shadowhawk, Thunderbolt, Archer, Warhammer, and Marauder. Having them missing from the MW titles has been rather annoying for me.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 13 November 2011 - 08:15 PM.

[CaveMan]

Project Phoenix had the right idea, but the execution SUCKED. Another attempt at it, please.

[garrett]

The MechWarrior games have always had designs that differ somewhat from the original BattleTech artwork, and the artwork shown for this game so far appears to continue this trend. If modernising the designs will allow the Unseen to return that's an added bonus and certainly preferable to them being left out of the game.

[Xhaleon]

Hey, here's an idea:

Get them to redesign them again, but get FlyingDebris to do it. I'm sure he can do the Whammy justice while remaining very true to the original Japanese design.

**** the Elevens for snatching up all the good designs first, leaving everyone else to the scraps.

[TronHarkon]

i agree let the unseen be returned to us in a way that gets harmony off are backs so we can injoy are selves

[Datum]

As beautiful as the original designs were, I think that to suit the new art style a redesign might be necessary. You know, like what Project Phoenix was supposed to do (except those were pretty ugly)

[Youngblood]

Assuming the old classics will be back in the game, Alex is going to have to redo them anyways, for the game. AND EVERYTHING HE TOUCHES TURNS TO GOLD.

[Halfinax]

I vote for Option 6: Let's wait and see what Alex "Flyingdebris" Iglesias comes up with for them.

[MagnusEffect]

Halfinax, on 13 November 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

I vote for Option 6: Let's wait and see what Alex "Flyingdebris" Iglesias comes up with for them.

soooo... option 3? That's kind of what that was meant to be.

Also, shameless plug:

I agree some of the redesigns sucked, but some were WAAAY better than the originals imho:

The Thunderbolt..........................................................................................................The Ostsol


The T-bolt is that special kind of military "uglysexy" that i love

Edited by MagnusEffect, 13 November 2011 - 07:48 PM.

[GI Journalist]

I also want to see what Alex does with these designs. From what we saw of the early demo, I'm expecting to see a Warhammer in some shape or form.

[LordKelvin]

I have complete faith in FlyingDebris's ability to redesign just about anything he puts his mind to. And let's face it, a lot of the older designs from the 80s (even the American-designed ones) didn't age well, so a redesign would probably be for the best anyways.

The only real problem here is if Harmony Gold lets Piranha actually do the redesigns. They tend to be very stubborn even if all the legal hoops have been jumped through.

[MagnusEffect]

Option 3 was better defined to appease all the Alex "Flyingdebris" Iglesias fans out there (count me among them!)

[Redtail]

I love the Unseen chassis in original shape, but here is my logic in simple terms.

Having Unseen chassis in the game would be having it all.

Having good Re-seen (or hypothetical Re-Re-seen) 'mechs is having some of it.

Nerfing all the Unseen chassis in totality is having none.


Now, in an attempt to be mathematically sound at the expense of grammatically correct:
Given - All is numerically greater than anything else.
Given - None is numerically less than anything else non-negative.
Given - Moar is always better. For srs.

If quantity "Some" is non-negative, then quantity "All" is better than "Some".
If "Some" is non-negative, then "Some" is Moar than "None".
If "All" is not available, and if Moar is always better, then "Some" is the best.

Given - "All" is not available.
Therefore, "Some" is the best.

I now have irrefutable mathematical proof that reseen chassis are better than nerfing all unseens.

[GoLambo]

I'll chime in and suggest that it's rather likely we'll see the "unseen" in a new, redesigned form but still recognizable. Harmony Gold never said a peep about the Warhammer in the 3015 video and whatever Alex could come up with would likely be noticeably different in the same way that the Jenner has changed greatly, and for the better. Despite being a huge fan of the originals, especially the Macross mechs, a new unified art style is more than welcome. Statistically they are some of the best mechs in the game in terms of canon loadouts, and they are pretty much the only "big gun" heavy mechs in 3025 to top it off. So my vote falls squarely on "whatever it takes", because with the current art direction it all looks up from here.

[Halfinax]

MagnusEffect, on 13 November 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

soooo... option 3? That's kind of what that was meant to be.

Oh I missed what is in parentheses there, but I don't know that it fully fits my feeling. If anything I think most of the Reseen are okay, but would gladly see them canned under the assumption that FD will come up with something even better that still avoids any trouble from Harmony Gold.

All in all one of the best laid out, and inclusive polls I've seen on the forums so far.

[Bubba Gump]

would love to see them redo the unseen again and get those jerks off our backs so we can have the mech's we love again.

[Hodo]

LordKelvin, on 13 November 2011 - 07:21 PM, said:

I have complete faith in FlyingDebris's ability to redesign just about anything he puts his mind to. And let's face it, a lot of the older designs from the 80s (even the American-designed ones) didn't age well, so a redesign would probably be for the best anyways.

The only real problem here is if Harmony Gold lets Piranha actually do the redesigns. They tend to be very stubborn even if all the legal hoops have been jumped through.

I dont know about you, but you, the Urban Mech aged perfectly. Nothing like a short walking trash can with a Autocannon.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Flying Debris has already done a Marauder Re-seen...sort of. It is on the BattleTech website, on the Universe, BattleMech Technology page.

I think it looks good myself. It is significantly different than the original as well, yet I still like this image.

MARAUDER RE-SEEN, by Flying Debris



Personally I always thought a good way to re-design the Marauder would be to take an Apache gunship, cut the tail and rotor off, then stick chicken walker legs on the bottom, move the chaingun from the bottom to the top of the rotorhead, and extend the rocket pods down on some robot arms.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 13 November 2011 - 10:35 PM.

[feor]

Well, some of the Unseen are 100% legal now. So anything from Crusher Joe or Dougram can be included pretty much unchanged, and should be largely untouched. (I want my big bad bfg-toting Battlemaster dangit! )

The Macross designs need to be redesigned pretty heavily to shut up Harmony Gold. Plus it lets them work with the existing universe to a certain degree. We know where the designs are going (Project Phoenix Reseens) and we know where they're coming from (Original 3025 Unseen) so Alex would just have to find a way for them to meet in the middle.

[Jack Gallows]

I'm kind of torn. Some of the reseen are really good (either better then the original, or just as good) and some of them are downright ****.

Wouldn't mind being allowed to vote on which mechs get to use the reseen designs, which mechs to redesign, and which to keep the unseen look...assuming they use any of the unseen.