675 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

I only remember 1 pilot who fired in mid jump. Name me two more please.

It happened but it was rareish. That said I totally think mechs should be able to fire in mid air but thre should be fairly decent penalties imposed upon them for targetting while doing this. Make the screen shake more on the way down perhaps. This would prevent jump sniping from massive ranges while still allow the use of close in weapons with a mild spread.

[Almond Brown]

Lupus Aurelius, on 08 January 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

I was going to type up another long analysis on weapon balance, heat system, firing speeds, and fitting capabilities.

Can't be bothered, with PGI's behavior and attitude, I can't afford to care.

R. Bollocks and P. Inureye, will continue to do whatever, regardless of logic, precedence, whatever, so long as they can grab the money from as many as possible for as long as they can. More important to get another mech out for money than to really balance the game.

The short sightedness of that post is brutal. In order to get what you want, something has to get Sold. The Dev team and their families cannot live on Skittles and or your hatred, although surely soul sustaining for yourself.

[Varent]

Almond Brown, on 15 January 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

The short sightedness of that post is brutal. In order to get what you want, something has to get Sold. The Dev team and their families cannot live on Skittles and or your hatred, although surely soul sustaining for yourself.

This.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 January 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

It happened but it was rareish. That said I totally think mechs should be able to fire in mid air but thre should be fairly decent penalties imposed upon them for targetting while doing this. Make the screen shake more on the way down perhaps. This would prevent jump sniping from massive ranges while still allow the use of close in weapons with a mild spread.

SO give the top 20 MW:O players the ability to do this and hen we will know who the best players really are!

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

SO give the top 20 MW:O players the ability to do this and hen we will know who the best players really are!

because then you would be excluding players the ability to try tactics and weapons.

Its a shooting game not a simulation.

[Roadkill]

Almond Brown, on 15 January 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

The short sightedness of that post is brutal. In order to get what you want, something has to get Sold. The Dev team and their families cannot live on Skittles and or your hatred, although surely soul sustaining for yourself.

Yes, but instead of constantly trying to sell us things that don't yet exist, maybe they could, you know, actually implement things and then sell those things to us?

PGI is doing the Lean Startup concept all wrong. In the classic Lean Startup case, you start out with limited features but highly personalized service. You wean your customers off of the highly personalized service by implementing more and better features based on the features that those early customers ask for/pay for.

PGI started with limited features and {Scrap} service, and has implemented what appear to be mostly random features to entice us to pay. That's just not how it works.

[Varent]

Roadkill, on 15 January 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Yes, but instead of constantly trying to sell us things that don't yet exist, maybe they could, you know, actually implement things and then sell those things to us?

PGI is doing the Lean Startup concept all wrong. In the classic Lean Startup case, you start out with limited features but highly personalized service. You wean your customers off of the highly personalized service by implementing more and better features based on the features that those early customers ask for/pay for.

PGI started with limited features and {Scrap} service, and has implemented what appear to be mostly random features to entice us to pay. That's just not how it works.

Honestly I have no complaint on how they are implimenting a f2p with pay options.

What I do have complaint about is there lack of communication about how the money is being utilized and where its going, etc.

That said you cant fault a company for wanting to make money just as much as no one here could look at there paycheck and say. "Its ok I dont want to be paid this week".

[Roadkill]

Varent, on 15 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

That said you cant fault a company for wanting to make money just as much as no one here could look at there paycheck and say. "Its ok I dont want to be paid this week".

I don't fault them for wanting to make money. I fault them for their poor implementation of their chosen method of making that money.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

The thing is most of the money probably doesn't go to PGI to develop this game -it goes to IGP for whatever purpose they wish. We're funding other games to an extent when we spend money here.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 January 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

because then you would be excluding players the ability to try tactics and weapons.

Its a shooting game not a simulation.

So shoot year dam weapons and don't worry about jumping! I just mumble "PULL" every time I see a Mech jump up and try to shoot me!

There are some things only the best of us should be allowed to do. the rest should be planning how to knock them off their perch. Earn it if you want it!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 January 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Varent]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 15 January 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

The thing is most of the money probably doesn't go to PGI to develop this game -it goes to IGP for whatever purpose they wish. We're funding other games to an extent when we spend money here.

Sadly yes, but there is little alternative.

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

So shoot year dam weapons and don't worry about jumping! I just mumble "PULL" every time I see a Mech jump up and try to shoot me!

There are some things only the best of us should be allowed to do. the rest should be planning how to knock them off their perch. Earn it if you want it!

as many have said. I admire your enthusiam Joseph, But it simply doesnt work that way in game .

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 January 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

as many have said. I admire your enthusiam Joseph, But SADLY it simply doesnt work that way in game .

Fixed that for you.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Fixed that for you.

It could to a degree if JJ were altered?

[Joseph Mallan]

M'eh.

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 15 January 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

It happened but it was rareish. That said I totally think mechs should be able to fire in mid air but thre should be fairly decent penalties imposed upon them for targetting while doing this. Make the screen shake more on the way down perhaps. This would prevent jump sniping from massive ranges while still allow the use of close in weapons with a mild spread.

I think the screen shake while jump jets are engaged is a really good penalty, but I don't agree with it shaking on the way down.

Here is my counter-idea, though, to hopefully get you to stop putting the blame on jump jets: how about we drastically increase falling damage from jumping? Currently, a light mech that LOOKS at a rock wrong gets leg damage from running over it and heavier mechs can leap off the cliffs in tourmaline like they are steps. It should be the exact opposite. Fall damage should be proportional to your mass and the distance fallen, so a Victor or HGN that boosts over a ridge and does nothing to stop their fall suffers for that fall. Want to jump up, shoot, and power down? Fine, but your legs better have max armor! Think of Death from Above damage in TT for what I am talking about.

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 15 January 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

I think the screen shake while jump jets are engaged is a really good penalty, but I don't agree with it shaking on the way down.

Here is my counter-idea, though, to hopefully get you to stop putting the blame on jump jets: how about we drastically increase falling damage from jumping? Currently, a light mech that LOOKS at a rock wrong gets leg damage from running over it and heavier mechs can leap off the cliffs in tourmaline like they are steps. It should be the exact opposite. Fall damage should be proportional to your mass and the distance fallen, so a Victor or HGN that boosts over a ridge and does nothing to stop their fall suffers for that fall. Want to jump up, shoot, and power down? Fine, but your legs better have max armor! Think of Death from Above damage in TT for what I am talking about.

Oh i agree with that whole heartedly. Though I still feel JJ needs to be changed. That would put damage on them but still you could feather it on the way down if you got good. Keep in mind im not saying it would be a passive shake. It wouldnt effect most light and mediums mechs attacking from shorter ranges with them it would just stop the massive range jump jet snipes.

Ill get off my JJ soapbox when you get off your alpha soap box. Deal?

Edited by Varent, 15 January 2014 - 12:12 PM.

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 15 January 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Oh i agree with that whole heartedly. Though I still feel JJ needs to be changed. That would put damage on them but still you could feather it on the way down if you got good. Keep in mind im not saying it would be a passive shake. It wouldnt effect most light and mediums mechs attacking from shorter ranges with them it would just stop the massive range jump jet snipes.

Ill get off my JJ soapbox when you get off your alpha soap box. Deal?

I was never on an alpha soapbox, technically, and I have compromised quite a bit about FLD, as I am to the point that JoMal can keep his thumper version as long as we can test out some alternative firing rates beside it and normalize autocannons in general - fix their range and make them function by class, not all be AC20s in DPS.

I am also compromising on the jump jets by giving changes to appease you, but that I think may work better. If jump snipers are forced to worry about falling damage, especially the heavies and assaults that can boat the weapons causing the issue, then they will have to save some of their jump fuel to slow their fall, giving enemies more time to hit them, less vertical to get off good shots, and screen shake as they slow their fall. I think it would work pretty good. It would also stop my bad habit of walking off cliffs in my atlas...

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 15 January 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

I was never on an alpha soapbox, technically, and I have compromised quite a bit about FLD, as I am to the point that JoMal can keep his thumper version as long as we can test out some alternative firing rates beside it and normalize autocannons in general - fix their range and make them function by class, not all be AC20s in DPS.

I am also compromising on the jump jets by giving changes to appease you, but that I think may work better. If jump snipers are forced to worry about falling damage, especially the heavies and assaults that can boat the weapons causing the issue, then they will have to save some of their jump fuel to slow their fall, giving enemies more time to hit them, less vertical to get off good shots, and screen shake as they slow their fall. I think it would work pretty good. It would also stop my bad habit of walking off cliffs in my atlas...

Sorry, FLD .. .meant FLD.

I suppose if anything I would ask why are you so against the screen shake exactly? Why try everything else but that and what about the concept of the screen shaking a 'little' on the way down off sets you? I do agree that the damage could help but I also forsee alot of pilots simply getting very good at 'feathering' there fall abit at the last minute to not get hurt much. Where as I dont see many ways to get around that light shake. Close in it would do nothing but at ranges it would be everthing. Its also just something targetting Poptars and not snipers in general so long as you playing a true sniper wouldnt hurt either.

[Steel Claws]

I rather think that lasers are far better in most instances for applying damage precisely where you want it. Therefore it takes you less damage by far to kill the mech in question than with weapons with travel time. They are still the only weapons with pin point accuracy and require no lead therefore making them better on most smaller targets. If someone can't hold an aiming point is that the problem of the weapon or the aimer?

Personally I see a lot more lasers in use than anything else. Autocannons are good for damage on large slow mechs but much harder to use on small fast ones. If one were to look at the data I think they'd be surprised how even things really are.

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 15 January 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Sorry, FLD .. .meant FLD.

I suppose if anything I would ask why are you so against the screen shake exactly? Why try everything else but that and what about the concept of the screen shaking a 'little' on the way down off sets you? I do agree that the damage could help but I also forsee alot of pilots simply getting very good at 'feathering' there fall abit at the last minute to not get hurt much. Where as I dont see many ways to get around that light shake. Close in it would do nothing but at ranges it would be everthing. Its also just something targetting Poptars and not snipers in general so long as you playing a true sniper wouldnt hurt either.

I know what you meant - just giving you a hard time for getting it wrong over and over, lol.

I am against the "off jet" shake because it makes no sense. Yes, I know this is a game about big stompy robots with fusion reactors under the pilots feet, but that's the "reality" of this game. Jump jets shaking the mech while blasting tons of metal into the air I can understand and it seems "logical", but it shaking while the mech is falling, not so much.

Also, while I know a skilled pilot can learn to feather their way down, but that is my point - they HAVE to save some of that thrust to do it. That means they are not able to get as high of a jump, require more jump jets to achieve the same result, and cannot do the "shutdown jump" trick. If the damage is significant, as it should be if a 80+ ton machine is plummeting to the earth, it will be a sufficient penalty to lessen the chance of someone using it as a valid tactic.

Regardless, I am just proposing this to try to meet you half way. I'm not going to support some weird shake voodoo just to make firing more difficult for a certain group of people. How about we make SRMs all have a horrible voodoo recoil making chain-firing them near impossible while we are doing that if so?

What I'm saying is, when someone meets you half way, don't try to yank them the other half...

Steel Claws, on 15 January 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

I rather think that lasers are far better in most instances for applying damage precisely where you want it. Therefore it takes you less damage by far to kill the mech in question than with weapons with travel time. They are still the only weapons with pin point accuracy and require no lead therefore making them better on most smaller targets. If someone can't hold an aiming point is that the problem of the weapon or the aimer?

Personally I see a lot more lasers in use than anything else. Autocannons are good for damage on large slow mechs but much harder to use on small fast ones. If one were to look at the data I think they'd be surprised how even things really are.

You must not have read the earlier posts. Go back to the start of this thread and actually read the damage data that was shared by several people. Lasers "hit" more often, but do significantly less damage per hit. The net result is far less dps than ballistics and PPCs.

You SEE lasers more because they are glowing beams of light that go all the way across the battlefield for a full second of time, as opposed to a tiny shell visible for milliseconds. Just because you don't see air doesn't mean it isn't everywhere...