44 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Seriously - thank you!!!

This has breathed so much more life into the game and created far more dynamic combat.

Since the patch:

1) I've explored areas of the maps I've barely known existed.

2) Made heroic stands amid terrain that was previously tucked in a corner and mostly forgotten.

3) Started combat nearly immediately as enemy lances spawned near each other - no more slow, ponderous march to the designated combat point for the ritual battle!

4) Enjoyed a near complete lack of predictable "murderballs" and many long minutes of both teams clumped together, taking potshots at each other.

5) Had to make legitimately tough decisions about which way to go with my small fraction of a team since we could no longer just assume "the whole team is over there, behind that sames line of rocks they are always behind."

6) Gotten surprise attacked by enemies - and actually enjoyed it since it was something new and exciting... and, of course, gotten the jump on enemies the same way.

So, thanks again - this is a great change and makes the battles much better: enemy positions are far less predictable, combat is joined earlier, and a single, blob of a "murderball" is no longer the default mode.

[Thad Jantzi]

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

[Allen Ward]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

Won't help on that valid point:

[color=#959595]3) Started combat nearly immediately as enemy lances spawned near each other - no more slow, ponderous march to the designated combat point for the ritual battle![/color]

[CDLord HHGD]

http://mwomercs.com/...s-hold-the-key/

Please PGI, take a gander and this....

[oldradagast]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

True, but the "murderball" is broken up, combat can start sooner, and there's more value to speed and scouting since you can't just say "all the enemies are over there in that one group... same place as they are every game" anymore.

Randomized points would be even more amazing, but perhaps impractical, but I'm very happy with this step forward.

[Aleksanteri Bekker]

Its hard for me to take this thread seriously. Granted, a lot of PUGs have a herd "tried and true" mentality, but some of these things never happening to you are inconceivable.

oldradagast, on 03 December 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

1) I've explored areas of the maps I've barely known existed.

Really, if you've never scouted or tried to find alternate avenues, thats your own fault. Stop following the herd. Spreading the spawn points should not be the only way you've explored areas you never knew existed. B brings up your minimap so you can see whats available.

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2) Made heroic stands amid terrain that was previously tucked in a corner and mostly forgotten.

In what map have you had combat where you previously never had action before? Yeah, a lot of times you have a good idea of where the bulk of the action is, but I can say that even on big maps like Alpine Peaks, I've had some action in every single area. I never needed to spawn on the other side of the map as my team in order to see different things. (And yes, Caustic valley starts one lance 2 squares away from the rest of the team, isolated. Brilliant.)

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3) Started combat nearly immediately as enemy lances spawned near each other - no more slow, ponderous march to the designated combat point for the ritual battle!

This is bad. There are countless other braindead shooters you could play where the action is immediate and fun. Having no chance to organize and set up is bad for gameplay because the actual combat is still meaningless. Now snipers don't get the set up time, even scouts don't get to do as much scouting because the enemy lances are closer and thus can take out your scouts quicker.

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4) Enjoyed a near complete lack of predictable "murderballs" and many long minutes of both teams clumped together, taking potshots at each other.

You mean the patient game? Being smart enough to not just run in guns blazing and die? Where you want to be thinking about your position rather than just start shooting when you spawn in the map?

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5) Had to make legitimately tough decisions about which way to go with my small fraction of a team since we could no longer just assume "the whole team is over there, behind that sames line of rocks they are always behind."

6) Gotten surprise attacked by enemies - and actually enjoyed it since it was something new and exciting... and, of course, gotten the jump on enemies the same way.

That you've never made a "tough decision" or "gotten surprise attacked".. ever? Seriously? You've never been flanked or ambushed? Have you played only since today or something?

Judging from why you like these changes, it sounds like you've:

1. Never scouted
2. Never sought to flank/cap/distract
3. Followed the Herd
4. Hated having to be patient and let the battle flow, instead just zerging the enemy
5. Played very few games (never been "surprised attack")

Sorry, the problem wasn't with the game, the problem was with you. Call of Duty is over there ---->

[-Natural Selection-]

Not to be a downer on the subject, but don't care much for it. Tends to make the people go in 3 different directions. Adding to the confusion of what players plans are for the match.

[Ihasa]

Some of the points definitely need re-tuning. Starting dead next to your enemy is not enjoyable in the least bit, it means you have to be on the offensive right away, or need to defend right away. Not knowing the composition of the opposing lance leads to quick steamrolls either way in the short time I've experienced the new points. Kudos for some outside the box thinking, but some points are ridiculously too close.

[Amsro]

This is the PEAK of ScatterWarrior, the smart team regroups all 12 mechs to slaughter the 3 enemy lances which have all split up due to distant starting points.

Its actually quite funny to see and also disheartening when your on the ScatterWarrior team.

[Diego Angelus]

Dozier, on 03 December 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Not to be a downer on the subject, but don't care much for it. Tends to make the people go in 3 different directions. Adding to the confusion of what players plans are for the match.

It would be fine in organized matches but I hate in pugs people do random stuff

[Corvus Antaka]

more random locations & variations on each map please

[Evax]

Such little communication in 4 man drops that the spawns aren't very good. PGI has trouble seeing the difference in 12man and 4 man drops. In 12s starting split is fine because you can us TS to plan but not in 4 man. The best you get is having your 4 man run to another group and hope the other group does the same. Why didn't they try this in the Test server first? I felt like things were going pretty good, but now after a few hours of this new spawn system.....Not very happy, not sure that I want to play , at least until everyone realizes where all the spawns are and they can't go off on there own.

[Lucian Nostra]

Evax, on 03 December 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Such little communication in 4 man drops that the spawns aren't very good. PGI has trouble seeing the difference in 12man and 4 man drops. In 12s starting split is fine because you can us TS to plan but not in 4 man. The best you get is having your 4 man run to another group and hope the other group does the same. Why didn't they try this in the Test server first? I felt like things were going pretty good, but now after a few hours of this new spawn system.....Not very happy, not sure that I want to play , at least until everyone realizes where all the spawns are and they can't go off on there own.

I have to agree with this, at first I was really into the new spawns but now it just feels like a demolition derby on some maps like Tourmaline where your just ontop of eachother in 5 seconds, and every Alpine match I've been in ends in a cap since 2 lances go against one on north and south

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 03 December 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[Steel Claws]

This was a horrible idea. All I've seen that it's done is make it quicker for bad players to go rushing off in 10 different directions and die faster. You cant coordinate in 4 mans or pugs.

Edited by Steel Claws, 03 December 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[Kjudoon]

It is a sop for QQ Bawlers crying over snipers and smart pilots killing them before they could waddle their stupidly slow pew pew boats into range and 1 shot kill everything. Oh look.... 500 meters from the enemy with LOS. and no time to think or use tactics. Just charge and pew pew pew/

Worst patch since open launch

[Wildstreak]

I have not played yet to see this in action.

However, I would have done this one of two ways for the following reasons.

First, when I think of match start, I consider the teams arrived one of two ways.
1 - Dropped in: from a Dropship of course. Depending on weather and other conditions, it is possible for Mechs on the same team to scatter instead of dropping where they intended to.
2 - Walked / Ran to Fight: Again depending on weather and affect on sensors, teams can lose their way and thus wind up in starting locations they did not plan on.

So given that weather and possible effect on Sensors can screw things up, this means usually teams will arrive where they should but on rare occasions somewhere else. This leads to one of two methods for determining start point.

METHOD 1:

Have a random function determine if this happens at match start. Most matches will sue normal (before patch) start positions but when that low chance comes up, they get scattered. The probability could be different per map.

METHOD 2:

Use the map type to determine how often this happens.

Maps with low chance of scattering - Alpine, Canyon, Forest, Forest Snow, Frozen Night, Crimson, River, River Night, Tourmaline.

These have clear weather conditions visible when playing so the odds of weather messing up drops is low. There could be something on the planet that messes up sensors (Tourmaline Crystals?) but that is not normal so we can just assume that keeps the odds low. I would start with a figure of 15% slightly modified per map.
Alpine 17% possible earlier storm plus map size
Canyon 16% need to navigate canyons and dropping Mechs must avoid landing on edges of canyon walls
Forest 14% obviously a lower chance than the next one
Forest Snow 15% while a early storm could affect it, it is a small map
Frozen Night 17% earlier storm could have some effect
Crimson 13% a bit above River due to size
River 12% due to dropship prescence, this map just says it has the lowest chance being a city.
River Night 13% slightly higher due to night
Tourmaline 18% need to avoid all those crystals

Maps with greater chance of scattering and why -

Caustic - with acid haze, caustic heat and industry that speaks of possible elements being refined and messing up sensors, there would be a higher chance arriving teams get scattered through misdrops or not seeing clearly by sensors where they are going. I would start at 25% here.

Frozen City - Unlike Frozen Night, there is an active snowstorm partially blinding visibility so that would increase odds to 20%.

Terra Therma - Any planet with molten lava and high spires has a greater chance of messing with sensors through ground content so increased odds of scattering to 20%.

Finally, for flavor, I would see about adding effects based on visuals of the map.

River City has, in the sky visuals, guns firing that could have targetted either dropping Mechs or those advancing on the ground. Perhaps a small percentage of a Mechs armor applied as random damage causing no more than a yellow to any location it hits at match start to reflect this.

Frozen City needs reduction in visibility compared to other maps due to the active storm going on.

Tourmaline Desert, I feel given the possible different elements that can be in tourmaline crystals, there should be some effect they produce on the map. Several ideas can be thought of but I am loathe to list them given at least one and what it would do.

[Victor Morson]

I haven't seen this on all maps, but I was much more worried when I heard about than when I saw it in practice. Teams still spawn far enough away from the other groups to regroup.

If they had REALLY scattered the teams, I'd be pretty mad about it. This is fine.

[oldradagast]

Aleksanteri Bekker, on 03 December 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Its hard for me to take this thread seriously. Granted, a lot of PUGs have a herd "tried and true" mentality, but some of these things never happening to you are inconceivable.



Really, if you've never scouted or tried to find alternate avenues, thats your own fault. Stop following the herd. Spreading the spawn points should not be the only way you've explored areas you never knew existed. B brings up your minimap so you can see whats available.



In what map have you had combat where you previously never had action before? Yeah, a lot of times you have a good idea of where the bulk of the action is, but I can say that even on big maps like Alpine Peaks, I've had some action in every single area. I never needed to spawn on the other side of the map as my team in order to see different things. (And yes, Caustic valley starts one lance 2 squares away from the rest of the team, isolated. Brilliant.)



This is bad. There are countless other braindead shooters you could play where the action is immediate and fun. Having no chance to organize and set up is bad for gameplay because the actual combat is still meaningless. Now snipers don't get the set up time, even scouts don't get to do as much scouting because the enemy lances are closer and thus can take out your scouts quicker.



You mean the patient game? Being smart enough to not just run in guns blazing and die? Where you want to be thinking about your position rather than just start shooting when you spawn in the map?



That you've never made a "tough decision" or "gotten surprise attacked".. ever? Seriously? You've never been flanked or ambushed? Have you played only since today or something?

Judging from why you like these changes, it sounds like you've:

1. Never scouted
2. Never sought to flank/cap/distract
3. Followed the Herd
4. Hated having to be patient and let the battle flow, instead just zerging the enemy
5. Played very few games (never been "surprised attack")

Sorry, the problem wasn't with the game, the problem was with you. Call of Duty is over there ---->

Thanks for the insulting, non-constructive post. Actually, I've been playing since January, but go ahead - assume anyone with a differing opinion is a "clueless noob" - that'll make you look smarter and help build the community.

1) Yes, because breaking from the "murderball" worked so well before when everyone spawned in one location. I'm sure those 1 vs. 12 fights went well for you.

2) I've had combat all over the map before, but you're kidding yourself and everyone else if you're implying that nearly all combat did not occur in the center of the map in all previous cases. At least the scattered spawns breaks that up a bit and allow for larger battles in less predictable locations.

3) I like setting up and organizing, and the game does need more of that, but are you seriously implying that the slow march of the "murderball" to the designated combat point in the center of the map was "fun" or "tactical?" Give me a break... I guess if you like mindless repetition it was "fun" and the only "tactics" involved picking which of your favorite rocks to hide behind while beginning the ritualistic sniper combat. Yeah, really deep thought required there... right...

4) Patient game? Because spending several minutes watching 2 "murderballs" hide behind the same pieces of cover on each map taking pot-shots at each other is "tactical?" I bet jump-sniping and 2 PPC + Gauss is also "tactical" by that logic... yeesh. I thought MechWarrior involved movement and combat, not 12 guys hiding behind rocks and focusing firing anyone who actually tries to do anything.

5) Oh, give me a break - I've made plenty of tough decisions, surprise attacks, and so on, but everyone knows full well such things are easier and more exciting when you don't know exactly where every enemy mech is since they no longer all spawn together in one big blob. It's hilarious - everyone was complaining about how there was no need for speed or scouting before, and now that they break things up and add a use for speed and scouting, all we get are more complaints. Some people are impossible to please and just like to whine and insult others.

Look, if you don't like the new system, fine, but stuff it with regard to the personal attacks. You have no idea what you're talking about and I'm sure there are plenty of other games out there where you can enjoy a long tactical walk in a big blob to the designated ritual combat ground where the "patient game" of hiding behind rocks while sniping can begin. Yeesh...

Edited by oldradagast, 04 December 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[New Day]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

Well they should be, at least to a small degree. More variety=Better game.

[John MatriX82]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 December 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

They won't be unpredictable for long. They're just moved, they're not a dynamic system.

One of the (unfortunately several) worst decisions you guys made so far. Those spawn points can lead to lose weight or an entire lance in the blink of an eye, teamplay is gone into the cesspit, since before PUGs already wandered around away from the main group to get mangled by the enemy, now entire lances do so.

I DEEPLY regret to have recharged some MCs in my account yesterday, I really do.