24 replies to this topic

[Doomliger]

thinks we need to look at these again.

Every one of us had discussions with egotistical players who states facts like ''I am a pro mechwarrior because i have great K/D ratio, i killed 11 mechs in a game etc.''


THIS GAME ISN'T COD mechwarrior edition. (Or i wished it isnt.)

Why is the guy who stands in the back of the team waiting for the enemy mech's armor to be stripped before walking out and finishing them off the ''pro'' of the match?

The end table where it states damage isn't even realistic. i have tested this myself. If you destroy a mech's component/ the mech itself rather than the armor, You get all the parts including ammo explosions as your damage.

what that equals to is the people doing the hard lifting - leading out, charging in destroying armor gets no reward but the cowards at the back of team gets all the kills and the c-bills.

any suggestions on how to rectify this? Or am i just being too cynical? or am I growing too old in the age of new computer games?

[Odins Fist]

Doomliger, on 07 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

thinks we need to look at these again.

had discussions with egotistical players who states facts like ''I am a pro mechwarrior because i have great K/D ratio, i killed 11 mechs in a game etc.''


THIS GAME ISN'T COD mechwarrior edition. (Or i wished it isnt.)

Why is the guy who stands in the back of the team waiting for the enemy mech's armor to be stripped before walking out and finishing them off the ''pro'' of the match?

Uh Oh, you have just uncovered the strategy of the "LEET SQUADS"...

Expect a visit from a half dozen Nerds with Zits and black trench-coats soon.

Seriously.. Nerds with Zits... Black trench-coats... That will be all.

Edited by Odins Fist, 07 December 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[Sug]

Doomliger, on 07 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

The end table where it states damage isn't even realistic. i have tested this myself. If you destroy a mech's component/ the mech itself rather than the armor, You get all the parts including ammo explosions as your damage.

Not sure what you're saying. Ammo explosions count as damage dealt if you trigger them but you don't get extra damage for the arm if you blow off a torso.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Sug, on 07 December 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Not sure what you're saying. Ammo explosions count as damage dealt if you trigger them but you don't get extra damage for the arm if you blow off a torso.

WHAT?! PGI has a very flawed and erratic reward structure?! Nonsense! Its all working as intended™

[Appogee]

Doomliger, on 07 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

what that equals to is the people doing the hard lifting - leading out, charging in destroying armor gets no reward but the cowards at the back of team gets all the kills and the c-bills.

Actually, you get more CBills for assisting a kill than you do for killing.

That doesn't stop some misguided people though from trying to inflate their k/d ratio (which isn't actually a k/d ratio, it's actually 'killing blow/death ratio', which is just silly).

Edited by Appogee, 07 December 2013 - 12:44 PM.

[Sug]

Appogee, on 07 December 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

[/size]
Actually, you get more CBills for assisting a kill than you do for killing.

Kills and assists pay equally on my screen.

[Appogee]

Sug, on 07 December 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Kills and assists pay equally on my screen.

Did it change since July?

Edited by Appogee, 07 December 2013 - 10:00 PM.

[Sug]

Appogee, on 07 December 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

Did it change since July?

It's 6500 for each on my summary screen. Less on conquest.

[DaZur]

Feel free to steal all my kills... My ego is rock solid and my coffers love it when you fill it with assist c-bills.

Edited by DaZur, 07 December 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[Appogee]

Sug, on 07 December 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

It's 6500 for each on my summary screen. Less on conquest.

Maybe they changed it, along with all the other stealth nerfs to earnings. I'll have another look when I get some games tonight.

[GRiPSViGiL]

It is all about match score for me personally.

There are those players that use the team as shields.

I pride myself in being aggressive and the first to engage and dictate the outcomes of skirmishes. I get my arse handed to me now and again when there is no support for that playstyle but I love the chaos. I have fun paving the way for the team while soaking up damage ending a match with a red CT no matter what class chassis I bring and sitting right at the top with highest match score puts a smile on my face. Even if I die early I can usually land in the top 3 or 4 on my team in match score.

The main thing you need to realize OP is that you cannot dictate how other people play. So you don't have to respect the way someone else plays but you have no right to tell them they are wrong. If you want to control what everyone is doing on your team start a Merc Corp and organize a 12 man team.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 08 December 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[Appogee]

Sug, on 07 December 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

It's 6500 for each on my summary screen. Less on conquest.

I just played a dozen Assault matches. In all of them, kills were worth 4300 CBills and assists 6500.

[Threat Doc]

Doomliger, on 07 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

thinks we need to look at these again.

Agreed, and there are other discussions going on across this forum about what changes need to be made. Your thread is not new or unique, but I still agree with you.

Quote

Why is the guy who stands in the back of the team waiting for the enemy mech's armor to be stripped before walking out and finishing them off the ''pro'' of the match?

Because you send the pawns first. Besides, those of us who are LRM 'Mech drivers need to stand in the back or we're ineffective. The lights always come and kill us, though, because they're way OP, turn too fast, the hit boxes aren't big enough to make a fair hit, etc.

Quote

The end table where it states damage isn't even realistic. i have tested this myself. If you destroy a mech's component/ the mech itself rather than the armor, You get all the parts including ammo explosions as your damage.

This is something I've found, as well. I KNOW I'm doing more damage than the end-drop screen tells me, but without Hit State Rewind fully in place, and with LRMs having such a naturally low hit percentage, there's no way for me to really tell how much damage I've done; I know not everything is registering, and it's by pure luck that I'm getting any kills with LRMs at all.

Quote

what that equals to is the people doing the hard lifting - leading out, charging in destroying armor gets no reward but the cowards at the back of team gets all the kills and the c-bills.

Well, you're a pawn, and you don't drive a missile boat, or you would see the use of them, and the cowards are the light drivers who are able to constantly circle you at full speed, without being knocked off their top-heavy chassis, not doing the job they should be doing, and being able to kill 'Mechs 30+ tons heavier than they are without hardly taking a scratch 90% of the time.

Quote

any suggestions on how to rectify this? Or am i just being too cynical? or am I growing too old in the age of new computer games?

The suggestions to rectify this is for PGI to listen to the community and understand what's going on, that they're nerfing all the wrong things rather than building up the good things. Plenty of suggestions have been put out across this forum and, I'm sure, across all of MWO'dom and, to my surprise, more than I thought have been heard and are being acted on, but the whole awards/rewards system does need to be revisited, and soon.

Sug, on 07 December 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Kills and assists pay equally on my screen.

They must pay different for everyone, then, probably based on the kills and assists you get. A kill is, right now to the best of my knowledge, 5000 C-Bills and 50xp, while a Kill Assist is 7500 C-Bills and 150xp split among all who did damage, and based on percentage amount of damage done.

It's a screwy system all around.

[Roughneck45]

Doomliger, on 07 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

what that equals to is the people doing the hard lifting - leading out, charging in destroying armor gets no reward but the cowards at the back of team gets all the kills and the c-bills.

I feel like people complain about this subject way more often than it actually happens.

Sure, from time to time, one guy will clean up the kills because he was useless in the back and watched his team die, but most of the time the person with the kills also has some great damage numbers and contributed to the fight.

Kills and damage are a pretty good way of telling if someone is good or not, considering it is basically the only indicator we have right now. I can almost guarantee you that people with a high KDR are in fact good pilots, not people that game the system and hang out in the back.

We don't have an epidemic of people trying to inflate personal stats at the expense of their own team.

Edited by Roughneck45, 08 December 2013 - 12:38 PM.

[Darkcloud]

Appogee, on 08 December 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

I just played a dozen Assault matches. In all of them, kills were worth 4300 CBills and assists 6500.

You can't get a kill without a component destruction. Component destruction gives you the difference between a kill and an assist. They both pay out the same cbills in the end.

Something I'm not quite clear on is the xp you get from kills and assists. It seems to be based on how much damage you did to the mech. I've gotten kills/assists that pay out tiny amounts of xp and kills/assists that pay out quite a bit more.

I find you have to look for a metric other than the end screen to evaluate you're play. K/D, damage, etc. are part of being a good player, but you have to take your own tactics and role into consideration. There are some unsung roles that do get sold very short in the metrics at the moment: proper assault pilots tanking damage to break the enemy lines comes to mind.

Edit: also what Roughneck said

Edited by Jack Harbinger, 09 December 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[Appogee]

Jack Harbinger, on 09 December 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

You can't get a kill without a component destruction. Component destruction gives you the difference between a kill and an assist. They both pay out the same cbills in the end.

Aha! Really good point, I never thought of it that way, thanks.

Jack Harbinger, on 09 December 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Something I'm not quite clear on is the xp you get from kills and assists. It seems to be based on how much damage you did to the mech.

You are correct, the more damage you do, the more XP.

Jack Harbinger, on 09 December 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

I find you have to look for a metric other than the end screen to evaluate you're play.

I agree. It's the guys who create the distraction by flanking or maybe capping, who push when they're asked to, who call out enemy positions, who will deliberately go and hunt down the enemy LRM boat or AC40 CheeseJager - even though they know it's a suicide mission - who are the ones who win matches.

Unfortunately, these kinds of match-winning behaviors aren't reflected in the stats or rewards screen.

Roughneck45, on 08 December 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

IWe don't have an epidemic of people trying to inflate personal stats at the expense of their own team.

Don't know if it's an ''epidemic'' yet, but I am definitely seeing many more players and premade lances doing this than I used to.

I think it's a sad reflection of the lack of MWO metagame. When there's nothing else to play for, people play for stats.

[Blurry]

I thought the point was to get your mech run out in the line of fire die. exit game restart with new mech.
rinse and repeat until you get desired level of credits.

Who cares if you always die first, always leave your team down a man ect. The grind is just so unbearable that getting killed exit and redoing it is the only way to achieve anything.
Who cares is you get 0 kills or damage you get credits and in the long run that is all that matters here.

Forget gameplay, fun or anything else - grind baby that is how you win here. This is how you win that game and make it fun cause you can watch a movie too! Win win - well almost
/sarcasm.

[Blurry]

Roughneck45, on 08 December 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I feel like people complain about this subject way more often than it actually happens.

Sure, from time to time, one guy will clean up the kills because he was useless in the back and watched his team die, but most of the time the person with the kills also has some great damage numbers and contributed to the fight.

Kills and damage are a pretty good way of telling if someone is good or not, considering it is basically the only indicator we have right now. I can almost guarantee you that people with a high KDR are in fact good pilots, not people that game the system and hang out in the back.

We don't have an epidemic of people trying to inflate personal stats at the expense of their own team.

Um sorry but almost every premade I had the misfortune of running into hung back and let the pugs eat it first so they could clean up.
It happens way too often - and the "thanks for all the hard work" doesnt go down very nice at the end of game when they are all alive.
Sorry but almost every time I have run with premades it has been negative and really want a solo q to get away from them. They are killing the game faster than the matchmaker.

(Lets not get into the rage they have and what they yell in chat. Pugs you can forgive because it is a pug life- is this a good idea? nope! but goto do it -need to shoot somthin.)

Yes I did have a good experience and was invited several times but out of the overwhelming times it has been incredibly negative and very detrimental to the game. I dont mean to damn everyone but when only a few times the interactions have been positive it says a lot.

Edited by Blurry, 09 December 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Jack Harbinger, on 09 December 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

You can't get a kill without a component destruction. Component destruction gives you the difference between a kill and an assist. They both pay out the same cbills in the end.

Close. Depending on how you get the kill and how the mech was loaded, kills are often multiple automatic components destroyed, whereas assist may include several, but can also be none. Typically, kills will average out to more, particularly kills in which one helps shoot up the mech, rather than just snagging a kill-shot.

Jack Harbinger, on 09 December 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

I find you have to look for a metric other than the end screen to evaluate you're play. K/D, damage, etc. are part of being a good player, but you have to take your own tactics and role into consideration. There are some unsung roles that do get sold very short in the metrics at the moment: proper assault pilots tanking damage to break the enemy lines comes to mind.

This.

I pay close attention to my own KDR, because I know how I play. I don't advertise it, or worry about how it compares to others, but I know that W/L and KDR are reasonable measurements of my own progression, as long as I bear in mind my play-style and don't resort to stat-padding.

[3rdworld]

Good players finish kills.