70 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

MisterPlanetarian, on 14 December 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

At no other point in time has the King Crab been as justifiable as now. RIP Atlas unless we get Heavy Gauss and MRM40's.

The Atlas is kind of already outclassed by Highlanders and Victors.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Atleast it was more durable than what was useable before. I'll stil enjoy my atlas way past 2014 because it is a mean looking mech with respectable firepower, but with weight limits in place for comp drops then it will be "formally" replaced by Highlanders/Victors for IS mechs.

The Direwolf might actually bring enough firepower to the field to be justifiable on some maps because of its great hardpoints.

Edit: Still predicting Summoners as the main component of Clan Comp Drops. Because JumpJet UAC20's thats why.

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 14 December 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Scratx]

Dire Wolves have almost all of their guns in the arms, just like most of the clan mechs. That's their main vulnerability.

Also, go ahead and grab dual UAC20. That's pretty much all the weapons you'll have to shoot with since, hey, aren't almost all of your hardpoints on the arms?

[Khobai]

Quote

Dire Wolves have almost all of their guns in the arms, just like most of the clan mechs. That's their main vulnerability.

How is that a vulnerability? The fastest way to kill a mech is through its CT. If you want to waste your time shooting a Daishi in the arms thats fine by me.

[MisterPlanetarian]

It will limit how many large bore weapons you can fit assuming 9 critslots per arm. I think PGI are genuinely worried about 3x UAC20 and things like that.

[Goose]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 December 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

I cannot wait to beat my head against these monsters till they give up!!!

http://brutallegend....wiki/Headbanger

[Joseph Mallan]

Goose, on 14 December 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

http://brutallegend....wiki/Headbanger

Fear the Whiplash!

[Scratx]

Khobai, on 14 December 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

How is that a vulnerability? The fastest way to kill a mech is through its CT. If you want to waste your time shooting a Daishi in the arms thats fine by me.

It's a vulnerability nonetheless. All weapons being on the arms means they're on the (second) least armored sections of the mech. Plus...

MisterPlanetarian, on 14 December 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

It will limit how many large bore weapons you can fit assuming 9 critslots per arm. I think PGI are genuinely worried about 3x UAC20 and things like that.

...this is another consequence. You'll have 9 critslots to fit up to what, 5 hardpoints? Think carefully.

[Coralld]

My biggest gripe is that Clans get both the Dire Wolf and the Warhawk, but the IS doesn't get the King Crab and/or the Pillager? What about the Bane? Can the IS get the Bane?

Why are we even getting these Clan mechs anyway? Didn't PGI say that no Assault mech would have split ballistic slots? This means either PGI has gone back on its word once again (shocker ) or that they have something up their sleeves regarding ballistic weapons, which I really hope that they are changing them to the rapid burst fire mechanic as was described in lore sense that would solve most of the issues with AC weapons on the balance front.

Or perhaps they are doing something with the Clan mechs them selves. Considering all the Clan mechs we know will show are Omni but have different variants. This could possibly mean that Omni mechs, like was described in lore, can not swap out engines, can add heat sinks but can not remove more then what comes stock as they are hard mounted, and many weapons them selves on Omni mechs are hard mounted as well and can not be removed out sided from those Omni slots. The only way to change engines and basic weapons and other stuff that were hard mounted on a Omni mech is if you were to take it back to the factory and have the mech COMPLETELY dismantled and rebuild it from scratch.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 14 December 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

How is that a vulnerability? The fastest way to kill a mech is through its CT. If you want to waste your time shooting a Daishi in the arms thats fine by me.

If the Dire is built like a Jager... DisARMing the beast will be easier than drilling through its chest.

[MustrumRidcully]

We have no information whatsoever on hwo Clan Tech will be actually implemented. So it's way too early to discuss it.

Most of the "solutions" to the problems you see are solutions to the same problems we have now, however.

[Khobai]

Quote

If the Dire is built like a Jager... DisARMing the beast will be easier than drilling through its chest.

Not likely since it has more armor on its arms combined than its CT. It would be less work just to core it out.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 14 December 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Not likely since it has more armor on its arms combined than its CT. It would be less work just to core it out.

Both arms together, you are correct.

[3rdworld]

My guess: Omni slots are limited in crits.

So the dashi only has ~7 slots available for weapons in its arms.

The main problem with clan mechs is that the weapons are in the arms. Not from a vulnerability standpoint but that the arms are very low firing positions. Which forces you to expose a lot of the mech in order to fire.

[Mcgral18]

3rdworld, on 14 December 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

My guess: Omni slots are limited in crits.

So the dashi only has ~7 slots available for weapons in its arms.

So, using that logic, I could put 14 machine guns in the arms?

That would be wonderful...Although ML boating might be an issue.

[3rdworld]

Mcgral18, on 14 December 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

So, using that logic, I could put 14 machine guns in the arms?

That would be wonderful...Although ML boating might be an issue.

If u want 14 MGs on a 100 ton assault. Be my guest. ML boating isn't an issue on a slow assault with the inclusion of heat scale.

Edited by 3rdworld, 14 December 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Balance will be easy - Clan lights will be the same size as IS mediums (PGI size) and will increase from there. The Daishi will probably be too big to fit down any street UAC20s won't be a problem as they will jam on the first shot.

[Blackadder]

The answer to your question, is that there is no real way to balance IS tech and clan tech in this game, with its current format without completely neutering clan tech. Clan has to many advantages that will add up to steamroll. While many people want to pilot a clan mech, most will not really be happy that they are not the OP mechs in the game once they are introduced. It will be fun to see what PGI does, but personally i think they just opened up another group of issues, when they cant even solve the ones they have already.

1. Balance by numbers: this does not really work, since all it will do is drive high level players to more powerful mechs as a team, trading off 2-4 players at most. Additionally its not really good game design to have lopsided player numbers in games.

2. Balance by cost: since there is no economy to this game, balance by cost is a non viable solution, as it will make the new player experience even worse, which this game does not need. Something like this will also just lead to a rise in afk /botting while playes grind out 25K or 50K cbills per match as fast as possible. If you reintroduce repair/rearm to clan mechs, players with money will just pay MC to repair, and create a pay to win situatoin.

3. allow IS to use and have clan tech. This kind of renders IS mechs moot, plus it will lead to another 24 months of FOTM mechs while PGI attempts to balance a brand new set of weapons across the board.

[o0Marduk0o]

Corbon Zackery, on 14 December 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

TT Clan ER PPC are 15 heat 15 damge. So the Warhawk starts with 4 and a LRM 10.

So your trying to soak 60 heat plus ghost heat on 4 ER PPC. on 42 heatsinks with the 1.4 conversion man build it watch it blow up in one shot.

In game ER PPC being 12 damage max with 15 heat slightly slower recharge time.

Don't fire 2 PPC at once.
Not every Mech is made to alpha all his weapons.

[verybad]

Daishi doesn't have Endo, so you can't put it on the Omni according to this.

Quote

[color=#959595]there wouldn’t be balanced unless it came with a cost. In this case, the ability to customize hardpoints comes with the tabletop OmniMech restrictions. All the configurations of a given OmniMech are based around a base configuration (not to be confused with the Prime configuration). This is the core of the Mech, with all the modular bits stripped out, and what remains cannot be customized at all. These include:[/color]

• The engine type and rating
  
• The number and placement of a minimum number of heatsinks
  
• The amount and distribution of armor
  
• The armor type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Ferro-Fibrous
  
• The internal structure type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Endo Steel
  
• Enhancements such as MASC
  
• The occasional weapon or other piece of equipment (e.g. jump jets) that is included as part of the base configuration

http://mwomercs.com/...47#entry2990947

Additionally, make the thing handle like a pig. (it's supposed to) The Masakari being higher up in the tier makes me think that they may do this. The Daishi WILL be able to handle 2 UAC-20s in the arms, so it's going to be a monster already...Just make it easy to get around.

Edited by verybad, 14 December 2013 - 03:35 PM.