52 replies to this topic

[Halfinax]

I'd want a Ryoken that fell within canon or variants. Meaning the basic internal structure can't be changed, but podded weapons can (it is an omni after all). Many of the variants in the game have such give and take as you mention. I really don't see why we need to let people customize 'Mechs that end up completely defeating the purpose of the various chassis to begin with. If we go that route why not just have a Light, Medium, Heavy, and Assault 'Mech make them look similar with only weaponry being the distinguishing factor? That is what most of the customization boils down to anyway.

I understand what you are saying, but those give and takes exist within the canon 'Mechs and their variants.

[Tweaks]

Halfinax, on 13 November 2011 - 09:48 PM, said:

I'd want a Ryoken that fell within canon or variants. Meaning the basic internal structure can't be changed, but podded weapons can (it is an omni after all). Many of the variants in the game have such give and take as you mention. I really don't see why we need to let people customize 'Mechs that end up completely defeating the purpose of the various chassis to begin with. If we go that route why not just have a Light, Medium, Heavy, and Assault 'Mech make them look similar with only weaponry being the distinguishing factor? That is what most of the customization boils down to anyway.

I understand what you are saying, but those give and takes exist within the canon 'Mechs and their variants.

Precisely my point of view too. For me the whole fun is to learn the different variants by heart so that I know where to hit the enemy in order to disable him, or what I should fear and what I should go after. If any 'Mech can fit just about anything, you never know what to expect and experience doesn't account for as much (if at all).

Please, oh PLEASE don't make MWO just another MW4...

No... customization, if at all allowed, should only be possible to some level, and only for OmniMechs (after the Clan invasion starts, when they are added, if they ever are), and it should come at a high price.

Edited by Tweaks, 13 November 2011 - 10:02 PM.

[Kargush]

Personally, I want all the canon variants, but I'd also like to see some room for customisation. Not on the level of omnis, but swapping a medium laser for a heatsink shouldn't be too difficult to arrange.

There's also the fact that lots of canon variants started as either custom jobs or attempts to "improve" the mech (see the Grand Dragon variants, one started as a Dragon with a weapon swap, the rest have a pedigree of their own), and that the canon is full of custom mechs. Peter Steiner-Davion's Fafnir, anyone? Or General Jeren Reinesblatt's Banshee?

[Halfinax]

kargush, on 13 November 2011 - 10:12 PM, said:

There's also the fact that lots of canon variants started as either custom jobs or attempts to "improve" the mech (see the Grand Dragon variants, one started as a Dragon with a weapon swap, the rest have a pedigree of their own), and that the canon is full of custom mechs. Peter Steiner-Davion's Fafnir, anyone? Or General Jeren Reinesblatt's Banshee?

Many of the variants are House specific. Again this is an entire House(ruling family) paying forward lots of money to have a 'Mech that remains within its primary role on the battlefield, but better fits their tactics. The field refits generally are downgrades as the base weapon couldn't be replaced.As to the personal 'Mechs : I wouldn't say "full of" there are a couple of dozen and are generally reserved for either Arena battle, or are the Personal rides of high ranking people within a house.

[Tweaks]

kargush, on 13 November 2011 - 10:12 PM, said:

Personally, I want all the canon variants, but I'd also like to see some room for customisation. Not on the level of omnis, but swapping a medium laser for a heatsink shouldn't be too difficult to arrange.

Well, actually, yes, it would be difficult, as it would require the Techs to completely change the internal structure of the 'Mech in order to replace the laser mount assembly and everything that goes with it by a heat sink system. This would only work if the heat sinks were pods (i.e. coolant pods), which is not exactly a heat sink on its own.

That's one thing I hated about MW4... You could just remove one large weapon and add as many tons of heat sinks just like that. It doesn't make sense! Swapping a standard heat sink for a double heat sink however, THAT may be possible, but not a weapon for a heat sink...

Edited by Tweaks, 13 November 2011 - 10:42 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Canon variants would make me happy.

[Woodstock]

True canon variants ... UNTIL Omnimechs come along.

[benefedaykin]

Yeah, Omnimechs change the game because they are designed so that weapons can be quickly and easily swapped out.

[Tweaks]

benefedaykin, on 13 November 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

Yeah, Omnimechs change the game because they are designed so that weapons can be quickly and easily swapped out.

I would be all for OmniMechs if they are implemented the right way and true to canon, but I don't want just any 'Mech to be customizable... like it was in MW4...

For example, this shouldn't be possible on an Atlas...:

Edited by Tweaks, 13 November 2011 - 10:55 PM.

[Kudzu]

I'd like to see only canon designs with individually weighted bv's to make up the difference in performance.

For the tinkerers out there, perhaps the devs could hold competitions every few months and each person could submit one redesign that if chosen would eventually make it's way into the game for their faction.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I voted for allowing full variation. Houses produced variants all the time - just look at the numbers. I played a lot of TT at one time and everyone used customised variants. The earlier era's played at the beginning had mechs as fairly rare. The majority of house armies were infantry, vehicles etc. Check out the vehicles, a lot of them had IC engines , not reactors, so the mechs were set up do be in a totally different environment. If you look at the early books planetary protection was often carried out by one or two lances of mercs. Whenever we played a stock only game it was always the same few mechs, often variants that were used. Griffin was a favourite with a number of my friends..
Plus in this game,within canon, there is no reason why a favoured merc company could not petition the house for an "official" variant - that was effectively how they came about in the "fluff". I'm not in favour of instant radical customisation a la MW3/4, it causes imbalance.
As for knowing what you've got when you see it - never did work - what with variants - like the Catapult and Katapult - you always had to check - thats what scout mechs are for - all the silhouette would do is let you know what tonnage of mech you faced - if you had a lance of lights and mediums, you didn't want to rush a lance of heavies/assaults.
There was always the matter of "field refits" - when you were playing as a merc company you fitted what you had as salvage to replace damaged weapons and accepted the penalties. How acceptable these things will be in a more action oriented modern game I don't know.
Let's face it 90% of the players (assuming, as we all do that this is successful) will know or probably care, very little for the backstory. They won't know that mechs can be customised so it won't be a problem - as longas there is sufficent variety of useful mechs that a newbie can get in and have a chance of surviving.

[Jack Gallows]

benefedaykin, on 13 November 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

Yeah, Omnimechs change the game because they are designed so that weapons can be quickly and easily swapped out.

Omni-tech really didn't catch on very much in the IS, at least in the early years of the fighting. It's still mostly a Clan thing, though there's some great designs once the IS finally manages to put some out.

Templar or bust?

[Omega59er]

For me I would love to see just the straight up variants from the books and readouts!

[Linkin]

I have to say I side with the posts saying customization to a point. Like Halfinax said,

Halfinax, on 13 November 2011 - 09:48 PM, said:

I'd want a Ryoken that fell within canon or variants. Meaning the basic internal structure can't be changed, but podded weapons can (it is an omni after all). Many of the variants in the game have such give and take as you mention. I really don't see why we need to let people customize 'Mechs that end up completely defeating the purpose of the various chassis to begin with. If we go that route why not just have a Light, Medium, Heavy, and Assault 'Mech make them look similar with only weaponry being the distinguishing factor? That is what most of the customization boils down to anyway.

I understand what you are saying, but those give and takes exist within the canon 'Mechs and their variants.

As long as it is not like MW3 where you would run into light mechs with dozens of small lasers and nothing else. That was a surprise when I first played that online, haha. Luckily I think we will avoid that given what the devs have said about roles and what not... but that is a bit off topic, so I will stop there =)

Edited by Linkin, 14 November 2011 - 12:08 AM.

[Kargush]

Halfinax, on 13 November 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

Many of the variants are House specific. Again this is an entire House(ruling family) paying forward lots of money to have a 'Mech that remains within its primary role on the battlefield, but better fits their tactics. The field refits generally are downgrades as the base weapon couldn't be replaced.As to the personal 'Mechs : I wouldn't say "full of" there are a couple of dozen and are generally reserved for either Arena battle, or are the Personal rides of high ranking people within a house.

Many, but not all. Several custom mechs are in the hands of mercs, usually rich and famous mercs, but mercs none-the-less. Jaime Wolf's Archer, for instance. Or the mechs of the Battle Magic mercenary group.

Furthermore, as has been noted, lots of variants pop up when that fancy ER PPC was no longer viable and they changed it for a large laser and some heatsinks. Do clearly, it isn't too far out of the question to allow such swaps to be done. We're not talking about removing 2 LRM15s with ammo and swapping them for a large laser.

Tweaks, on 13 November 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

Well, actually, yes, it would be difficult, as it would require the Techs to completely change the internal structure of the 'Mech in order to replace the laser mount assembly and everything that goes with it by a heat sink system. This would only work if the heat sinks were pods (i.e. coolant pods), which is not exactly a heat sink on its own.

Once again, smaller replacements like that are littered across the canon. Many 3025 mechs arose that way. The Zeus, for example, started with a fancy PPC that was later removed and replaced with a large laser. So clearly, anyone with the cash and the time can have all manner of things done. Just looking through the TRO3039 there are plenty of "Many pilots have tinkered with their [mech]" which implies that smaller kitswaps are fairly common.

And that's without going into Periphery mechs and bandit mech.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Jack Gallows, on 13 November 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

Canon variants would make me happy.

I agree!
My vote goes to option 1. Canon variants please!

[Ilfi]

I am strongly against the restriction of customization in the MechLab. I can't put my finger exactly on the source of this anti-MechLab movement, but it's absolutely bizarre to me. Every MechWarrior shined because of its elaborate and flexible MechLab.

I am not against Stock variants being good; I am against Stock variants being the only choice, or by far the best choice due to exorbitant restrictions on customization in the MechLab. At the end of the day, it's my Mech, so I should be free to at least twist it a bit and Min/Max it to my fortes.

I want to see custom builds more than anything else. The idea that we have to be stuck with Stock should be left in MechAssault and (maybe) a niche custom game mode not linked to Conquest.

[Kudzu]

FenixStryk, on 14 November 2011 - 01:51 AM, said:

I am strongly against the restriction of customization in the MechLab. I can't put my finger exactly on the source of this anti-MechLab movement, but it's absolutely bizarre to me. Every MechWarrior shined because of its elaborate and flexible MechLab.

I am not against Stock variants being good; I am against Stock variants being the only choice, or by far the best choice due to exorbitant restrictions on customization in the MechLab. At the end of the day, it's my Mech, so I should be free to at least twist it a bit and Min/Max it to my fortes.

I want to see custom builds more than anything else. The idea that we have to be stuck with Stock should be left in MechAssault and (maybe) a niche custom game mode not linked to Conquest.

Most of it stems from how easily abused it becomes.

[corsair]

i would like to see customization on cannon varients as most mechs that competed on Solaris are standards varients with a tweak towards the pilots combat style but i dont want to see the style used in MW4 if there is no reason to have a weapon slot be weapon specific ( laser, ammo, missile). Also for those that say they want to be able to know what to shot at to cripple an opponent then i say the developers need to make the extra efort of making the customization appear on the mech (if a missile pods is replace with an auto cannon it should appear on the mech in its new location).

[Jack Gallows]

FenixStryk, on 14 November 2011 - 01:51 AM, said:

I am strongly against the restriction of customization in the MechLab. I can't put my finger exactly on the source of this anti-MechLab movement, but it's absolutely bizarre to me. Every MechWarrior shined because of its elaborate and flexible MechLab.

I am not against Stock variants being good; I am against Stock variants being the only choice, or by far the best choice due to exorbitant restrictions on customization in the MechLab. At the end of the day, it's my Mech, so I should be free to at least twist it a bit and Min/Max it to my fortes.

I want to see custom builds more than anything else. The idea that we have to be stuck with Stock should be left in MechAssault and (maybe) a niche custom game mode not linked to Conquest.

I don't think we're against being able to modify your mech at all, but that they need to have less customization then what's been seen in previous games, unless there's a hefty hefty price tag and time attached to altering a mech.

Want to remove the LRM's from that Archer and add a couple more lasers? Going to take some tech time, it won't be available for your next mission while it's being retrofitted.

Let people buy the stock variant and all the canon variants of it per the time line. Only Omni-mechs swap out quickly, because they're specifically designed that way.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 14 November 2011 - 06:47 AM.