22 replies to this topic

[Jarvis Lancaster]

The most recent update from PGI about clan tech, balance, and customization is "we will not be bringing clans in as was originally written..." so we really know NOTHING about how the game will be balanced.

Will they nerf the weapons? armour? Hitboxes?

Will they lock some of the omnimech customizations?

Can we have both Clan and Inner Sphere mechs in the same dropship? or will we have to play strictly clan or inner sphere for a while (i.e.: will the comunity warfare simulate an actual 'invasion' of inner sphere territories?)

I actually agree clan packages should be expensive, otherwise everybody and their dog would buy the warhawk package and the game would be just clan vs clan. but do they really expect we want to put THAT MUCH down when we don't know how they are balanced!?

[Tralador]

I concur with this statement. The Dire Wolf, Warhawk, and Timber Wolf are my 3 favorite mechs of all time, but throwing 200+$$ at something with no known value made me stop. Maybe if we get more information I'll go for it, but this is the main reason I did not jump at this announcement, especially with PGI's statement of Clan tech = IS tech.

[Pariah Devalis]

On Twitter, it was confirmed that, at least, the Timber Wolf is packing its stock loadout. The suggestion to balance the Clans by total drop weight was made by Garth as well. Will that be enough? Hard to say.

[Tralador]

I suppose, looking at it logically, the Weapons that matter ™ on the Timber Wolf are the 2 ER Large, 2 ER Medium, and 2 LRM 20. A current Orion can get 2 Large and 2 LRM 15, AMS, 2 Medium Laser with 3 tons of LRM ammo, which, except for the IS v Clan technology and being Slower, is about equivalent. What made the Clans brutally effective in the TT was the combination of weight reductions, space reductions, and Range. If you take away these things, the clans are just "strange" IS.

[Pariah Devalis]

That, and the increased range effectiveness on weapons (IE: no minimums, slightly larger maximums). I look at the timberwolf and the direwolf and the Stalker comes to mind. They are mechs with oodles of weapons, but if they take them they do not benefit from ALL of them at any one time. The heat load is too high. Instead, you have options that you can exploit at any given situation.

OTOH, I look at the Warhawk and Adder and cringe. Unless Clan ERPPC put out less than 15 heat per gun, good luck with that.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 14 December 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[PoLaR]

I'm looking at the Dire Wolf/Daishi.. Is it possible to put two AC/10's in those arms?? Add four medium pulse lasers and an SRM 6 and you have a brawler of mass destruction D:

[Tralador]

Clan PPCs did 30% more damage then their IS ER variants though, so what if your ER PPC could be longer range, more damaging and cost less crits. It changes the equation (also Clan PPCs have no Minimum, so go on, brawl with em).

There is a DW variant with AC'5s in the arms to match the lasers and the Widowmaker notoriously had the UAC 20 in the torso to match the battery of Pulse Lasers and heatsinks to back it up.

[Thorn Hallis]

Actually, due to the package, we do know one thing: There are no Omnis (otherwise there wouldn't be 3 variants for each Mech).

[Pariah Devalis]

Tralador, on 14 December 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Clan PPCs did 30% more damage then their IS ER variants though, so what if your ER PPC could be longer range, more damaging and cost less crits. It changes the equation (also Clan PPCs have no Minimum, so go on, brawl with em).

There is a DW variant with AC'5s in the arms to match the lasers and the Widowmaker notoriously had the UAC 20 in the torso to match the battery of Pulse Lasers and heatsinks to back it up.

Try running two ERPPC right now. Firing them together, just setting off two salvos is more or less going to paralyze you for heat until you cool off. That is no bueno for a primary weapon system. Granted, the Warhawk has, what, 30 DHS? It might be able to manage a ripple fire of... oh... 3 salvos of 2 ERPPC, but it would not be sustainable by any stretch of the imagination.

ERPPC irk me tremendously right now because of a stupid, stupid move PGI did with no logic: When they started at 15, they were too hot, so they made them 13 heat but that was too cold. Instead of making them 14 heat, they went back to 15. Wat?

[Tralador]

Not quite true. There was the Timber Wolf, but then there were the "Pryde" and other such mechs that were almost unique, but eventually mass manufactured. As with my Widowmaker example above, that was Natasha Kerensky's personal mech, but IMO a lot of Daishi pilots likely did a double take and then said "I want one." So, I do not technically discount Omni-mechs, but I honestly believe PGI will simply keep the system they have now. It isn't THAT far from omnimechs, takes fewer programming hours, and there are other ways to modify the balance between Clan and IS.

http://mwomercs.com/...d/page__st__220 for my suggestion =)

[Calon Farstar]

Thorn Hallis, on 14 December 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Actually, due to the package, we do know one thing: There are no Omnis (otherwise there wouldn't be 3 variants for each Mech).

Yeah this is where I am stunned. I could see 2 variants for each chasis. One special one that you paid for with some kind of perk or change in appearance. But these are supposed to be OMNI mechs....each one should have a set number of hard points that you can mount whatever weapon on.... RIGHT????

[Tralador]

http://ppc.warhawken...timberwolf.html

Has a good side by side comparison of what changed between the mechs. Basically with just the Timberwolf, you had Gauss Rifles, PPCs, ACs, and Lasers all on the arm mounts; Missiles, lasers, machine guns and AMS in the torso; and a number of heat sinks between 15 and 21. I can honestly say I understand the canonical reasoning behind the "Omni" but in practice IS and Clan have almost no physical, rule based difference in their mech design and creation. The main thing that "Omni's" had to do was to "pick an engine, decide on jump jets, decide on Endo Steel (yes), and then any root equipment (Angel ECM and Bloodhound Active Probe))". Everything else you could just modify on the fly.

[Quaamik]

They had to find a way to have at least three variants. Otherwise the pilot tree would have to be rewritten.

That said, they could still do it with omnis. Three ways I can think of:

1) Some slots are omni and some are not on each mech. Changing the "non Omni" portion of the loadout can vary the mechs a fair amount.

2) Don't go with true "Omni" hard points, just put more, and a variety, of hard points in each location. Like putting 2 energy and 2 ballistic hard points in each arm on a Timber Wolf. Hard to fill tem all and make them useable (unless with lighter weapons) but lets you change loadouts easily. Different variants would have different mixes of hard points.

3) Make all Omni slots, but vary number and position on each mech. Could also vary the number of available slots near each hard point. This could be done with permanent structure locations. So a variant could have 5 Omni hardpoints in a arm, but only 7 available slots to use in that arm.

In any case, without some idea of balance and how they will be implemented, hundreds of dollars is too much in advance. Especially when you might only want 1 or 2 of the chassis at first. I'd like tem, but I will hold off until I hear more f how they will balance and decide if I want all the chassis.

[Tolkien]

Quickly give them money to continue to delay CW and the other features they promised the founders ~400+ days ago.

[SaltBeef]

I keep hearing people whining about the variants. Read the 3050 Battletech book the clans used a prime version, had A,B,C,D variants for specialized missions. You could still mix and match weapons and pods. The variants were pod setups for specialized missions. IF PGI is selling the prime and the variants they are causing NO FOWL with me. The way it is now it is kinda backwards IS mechs were not Omni's and the only variants they had were whether they used a Defiance medium laser or a martell. Or had a LRM 15 or LRM 20. Omni mechs for inner shere did not show up in numbers until they got their hands on clan tech. The Blackhawk KU, Avatar, and the diaishi clone. Inner sphere mechs came out in models with slight improvements they were not omnis kinda like PGI is selling now. No FOWL with me. From all of the youtube vids looks like the game has gotten a lot better over the last 2yrs still needs weapon tweaks but fun to play.

[Hythos]

Tralador, on 14 December 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

I concur with this statement. The Dire Wolf, Warhawk, and Timber Wolf are my 3 favorite mechs of all time, but throwing 200+$$ at something with no known value made me stop. Maybe if we get more information I'll go for it, but this is the main reason I did not jump at this announcement, especially with PGI's statement of Clan tech = IS tech.

My justification is that I have plenty of time to cancle the payment. Legally, we all do even after goods+services are delivered; it's part of doing business in America.

Secondly, MW-titles are something *I* want to support, and hope to not see fail again. I hold on to hope, that my interests can be considered as well as any other, though I do support unbalanced opinion towards those who cobtribute more to the game (who is one to disagree with a million-dollar donor ... Except another million-dollar donor?)

We know PGI flip-flops on design, content, and function; because of the fees they've imposed upon the customer, to justify its value to us, I do hope these 'Golden Trophies' carry lifetime premium-time too... at the very least.

Edited by Hythos, 14 December 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[Tralador]

True, but a business (especially electronic businesses) also has the right to refuse you service if you use back charges and depending on the exact wording of the EULA, they can cancel your account, any items you have previously purchased, and anything you have worked for if you cancel or back charge. I want to support MW titles to, but I can't justify 200+ dollars without more information.

[Commander Kobold]

You people need to stop freaking out over it and just wait for more information the packs only come out on june 17th and if it's anything like the pheonixe pack you'll be able to buy it a month or two AFTER it's delivered. The Q&A says information on the clan mechs loadout ect and that is coming so just be patient

[Will9761]

I also agree that Clan Mechs should be expensive, but it should be based on weight class and tonnage rather than a split force of mechs. The bundling cost is actually fine though.

Edited by Will9761, 14 December 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Tralador]

True, but in the absense of truth all we have is speculation. I kinda wish they would not have announced this without more detailed info. It kinda feels like they just want my holiday money.