53 replies to this topic

[Inveramsay]

Why on earth should anyone donate to a commercial business? It is ridiculous.

[drengur]

I doubt the Devs give a flying F@#K about the new monetisation, it will be the powers that be trying to bleed some money.

My money is there Devs are just as passionate as you guys, but they aren't steering the ship here, marketing and finance seem to be. The OP is quite right, while I don't begrudge them their income streams and they have done well not creating a P2W environment but there is just not enough energy spent on actually improving the game.

As it stands, I don't see where the money is going, I am sure there is the new modules underway (and as a software dev I know how much time goes into these sort of releases) but there is incredibly sparse smaller feature releases such as the odd map or countdown timer, however mostly it is just bugfixes and tweaks. While they seem to be doing a decent job of regular patching of late, the tweaks are mostly seem to be massaging some numbers. For all we know, the money may not be going into development - we have no guarantee that it is and we aren't seeing much in releases to indicate that it is.

There is a lot of rumbling and grumbling about this within the community and a pretty high churn as people get bored of just grinding a new mech on the same old stale maps/play modes. If they want to arrest a shrinking player base, it is my opinion that they need to show some returns for the money they have already made before asking for more.

[Wildstreak]

@Zero V85, I have come recently to the belief they need to really revamp the Store, some MMOs have done this by understanding the buying habits of the community over time. Camo unlocks and recent packages are prime examples.

Durant Carlyle, on 14 December 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

The best regular deal is the $100 package gives you 25,000 MC. 25,000 MC divided by 100 equals 250 MC per dollar. The less-expensive MC packages give you less MC per dollar, in case you hadn't figured that out yet.

You people min-max your 'Mech builds until they scream for mercy, yet you don't min-max your MC purchases by saving until you can afford the $100 package to get the best deal? Tsk-tsk.

The Boar's Head is 7,500 MC. 7,500 divided by 250 equals 30. That's $30 worth of MC to purchase the Boar's Head, if you bought the $100 MC package. And you'd still have 17,500 MC to spend on other stuff.

The Black Friday sale would have given a rate of 300 MC per dollar, which would have made The Boar's Head $25 worth of MC if you bought the $100 MC package while it was on sale.

Please review your figures before you accuse someone of being wrong.

No, you should review your assumptions.

It seems easy for anyone to save up for the highest cost package on MC.

TO YOU.

My finances are not yours. I don't have the luxury of doing that not just for MC, for many things. I posted elsewhere I had recently bought a joystick after years of not having one partly because I did not have the room in my budget to save up for one. Been aggravating having to do things without joystick for years due to the removal of game ports from computers. I don't have as much disposable income as you do clearly.

I also posted elsewhere why I don't have the money to pay for Phoenix or Clan packages. I almost got a low rank Phoenix pack but it became a choice between that and the joystick, I chose the one I would get more value from for me.

Before you, "Tsk-tsk," someone on money, be sure you know their finances.

So, no, the Boars Head does not have a $30 value to everyone. You, clearly, but not everyone.

[Atheus]

Something has got to be going terribly wrong for them to be trying to sell clan mechs more than 6 months in advance. It seems they're dipping further and further into future profits to get by, lately. What do they plan to sell in 6 months when every cash-spending player already owns the next 6 months worth of content?

[Atlai]

Xitomatl, on 14 December 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Pic

Lol your sig is the direct opposite of mine.

[Durant Carlyle]

Merchant, on 15 December 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

No, you should review your assumptions.

Not once in any of my posts did I say saving for the $100 package was easy.

If you literally cannot earmark a small amount per pay period to be "not spent" to save up for something, then you are in the financial minority. The majority of us (even those without a lot of income) waste money by spending it on fast food and other frivolous purchases that we don't need.

As you have explained, you don't have disposable income.

That doesn't mean The Boar's Head has a higher value than $30. It simply means some people will have to pay more than its value for it because they cannot afford to get the best deal on MC.

[LackofCertainty]

Durant Carlyle, on 14 December 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

...

By the way, they aren't selling the Gold 'Mech skins. They are offering fans the opportunity to donate more to the development of their favorite IP, and are offering something limited-edition in return. There are a lot of people who wouldn't ever consider doing that, but then they aren't really fans. The real fans are those who don't want to see this project fail, because if it does it'll be longer than ten years before somebody else tries again.

Kermut:
Sorry to hear that you want the game to fail. Nobody else is going to make another official MechWarrior game any time soon if that happens.

...

When eve online came out with 80$ monocles, a large portion of the playerbase responded by gathering in a single zone on the server and cancelling their subscriptions. This lead the devs to publicly apologize, and then refocus on working on features the community actually cared about rather than cosmetics.

It wasn't the players wanting the game to fail, nor was it an example of them not being "true fans."

What you're describing isn't fandom, it is being a mindless sack that vomits money continuously onto a project, even when the leads are making decisions you disagree with.

I don't need more mechs standing around in my garage. If I wanted that, I could just buy some (more) mech statuettes to put around my home.

I need features that make the game more fun to play. Features which have been perpetually promised and perpetually delayed.

[Dugra Dugrasson]

Guys, don't direct your anger at PGI. You need to be looking to their publisher, IGP. The publisher is the one looking to make the most money possible. Don't believe me? Go poking around the MWO Reddit. It's well worth the hour or so trip.

[Durant Carlyle]

LackofCertainty, on 15 December 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

When eve online came out with 80$ monocles, a large portion of the playerbase responded by gathering in a single zone on the server and cancelling their subscriptions. This lead the devs to publicly apologize, and then refocus on working on features the community actually cared about rather than cosmetics.

Yes, I remember Monoclegate. I played then, and I play now. I was then, and continue to be now, one of the players that high-priced monocles didn't affect.

The "Walking in Stations" part affected me more than monocles ever did. If they had continued development of that, I would have protested.

We all have things that bother us and things that don't.

LackofCertainty, on 15 December 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

What you're describing isn't fandom, it is being a mindless sack that vomits money continuously onto a project, even when the leads are making decisions you disagree with.

I don't need more mechs standing around in my garage. If I wanted that, I could just buy some (more) mech statuettes to put around my home.

I need features that make the game more fun to play. Features which have been perpetually promised and perpetually delayed.

I may not agree with all of their decisions, but the game is still a lot of fun for me. Therefore, I will continue to purchase things I want in the game.

When it is no longer fun, I will no longer purchase stuff. Obviously, other people have reached their "no longer fun" point. Just because I haven't doesn't make me a mindless sack that vomits money.

In any case, having an option to donate $500 to the company and get a shiny gold skin doesn't affect me. Just like the $15,000 option for Star Citizen doesn't affect me. Having those options in the game doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the game. Why should it?

[Goldfinger]

Durant Carlyle, on 14 December 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

By the way, they aren't selling the Gold 'Mech skins. They are offering fans the opportunity to donate more to the development of their favorite IP, and are offering something limited-edition in return. There are a lot of people who wouldn't ever consider doing that, but then they aren't really fans. The real fans are those who don't want to see this project fail, because if it does it'll be longer than ten years before somebody else tries again.

- snip - G

Xitomatl:
That's exactly right. People donating the $500 will help with getting all of those things. It'll even make the island bigger to hold more people. The fact that a Gold Skin is included is just a bonus.

All good points; but my C-bills say any gold mech is STILL going to be primary target #1 (for BOTH sides) on any battlefield.

[drengur]

Inveramsay, on 15 December 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Why on earth should anyone donate to a commercial business? It is ridiculous.

If that business is trustworthy and the product is truly something you want, it is not that silly.

I am not convinced PGI/IGP is the former, despite the latter having merit for many people.

[Distilled Mojo]

Well... look at it this way. The standard MMO fee for pay to play games is about $15/month. That's $180 a year. So, ask yourself, how long are you planning on playing MWO? If you're just here to kick the tires for a few months, then sure, what's is being charged is high. But, if you are planning to play long term, then these prices are cheap. Dirt cheap. $100 for a founders package is just over 6 months of play time on WoW or Star Wars, or any other pay to play mmo. You're free to disagree but I think that's deal.

[Jetfire]

Durant Carlyle, on 14 December 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Best rate for MC is the $100 package and that's 250 MC per dollar. If you don't buy the best-deal package, that's not their fault. Every one of the item prices you quoted is cheaper at the best rate. Wait for an MC sale like the 20% off we had just recently, and the rates are even better.

Boar's Head is most expensive Hero 'Mech -- 7,500 MC = $30. No Hero 'Mech will ever be more expensive than that, as it is based on tonnage. 100 tons is maximum x 75 MC per ton for a Hero = 7,500. WoT has $50+ tanks. Not a direct comparison, but it's the best one we have.

I know people personally who have spent a hell of a lot more than $400 on each MMO they play. The numbers you are citing aren't all that unusual.

You forgot the other option:

Pay NOTHING and still have access to every non-Founder/Champion/Hero/Sarah/Prime 'Mech, and all but a few modules. Those 'Mechs are in no way overpowered or required, and neither are the MC-only modules.

By the way, they aren't selling the Gold 'Mech skins. They are offering fans the opportunity to donate more to the development of their favorite IP, and are offering something limited-edition in return. There are a lot of people who wouldn't ever consider doing that, but then they aren't really fans. The real fans are those who don't want to see this project fail, because if it does it'll be longer than ten years before somebody else tries again.

Kermut:
Sorry to hear that you want the game to fail. Nobody else is going to make another official MechWarrior game any time soon if that happens.

Also ... why would they run specials on the C-Bill cost? There's an inexhaustible supply of that -- all you need is time.

Xitomatl:
That's exactly right. People donating the $500 will help with getting all of those things. It'll even make the island bigger to hold more people. The fact that a Gold Skin is included is just a bonus.

I would consider this a valid concept IF and only IF the $500 was actually to go the the development of MWO. There is no telling where that money ends up and what portion PGI keeps for MWO. This is one of those things that got the founders worked up last year. They never advertised this stuff as crowdfunding, so let's accept these for what they are and not ascribe anything more to them than a premium product offered to those who want something very exclusive.

[Draconis March]

Durant Carlyle, on 14 December 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

By the way, they aren't selling the Gold 'Mech skins. They are offering fans the opportunity to donate more to the development of their favorite IP, and are offering something limited-edition in return. There are a lot of people who wouldn't ever consider doing that, but then they aren't really fans. The real fans are those who don't want to see this project fail, because if it does it'll be longer than ten years before somebody else tries again.

No sir. There's a difference between a fan and a fan[word that is censored because it offends PGI]. The difference between the two is that one is blind and ignorant and will bend over and take everything while the other is able to think rationally about things.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what a whale looks like. They think that the project in its current state--after this latest development--is still worth throwing money at. I will go back to supporting this game with my money when they prove that it's a game worth supporting. (That means when they make it clear that they're going to put actual content in the game to increase its longevity rather than make desperate attempts to milk the remaining whales for every penny possible.)

[Irreverence]

Hi everyone. Been a while. Same old?

[Meridian]

Irreverence, on 16 December 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Hi everyone. Been a while. Same old?

ECM is still the deciding factor in a hell of a lot of games. PGI doesn't actually fix anything that's broken, they just dance around the edges of absolutely everything else.

So, yes, same old.

[Jonny Taco]

Inveramsay, on 15 December 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Why on earth should anyone donate to a commercial business? It is ridiculous.

And this is what millions of "modern" gamers are missing...

you morons are being herded like sheep, wake up, think for yourself, pgi just wants your cash... There is no genuine interest to make a solid game, that went out the window with the ability to buy your way into a "Closed beta"...


The responsible thing to do here is to not support PGI or IGP in the future... You really think making a simplistic copy paste team death match shooter with an already developed ip like this costs 10's of millions? Yeah ******* right... You guys are paying for company drinking nights, 6 figure pay checks, and a massive over sized studio... Wake the hell up! You whales are ruining the industry faster than I ever thought possible...

Edited by lartfor, 16 December 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Grishnakh]

It's the Internet where everything has to be for free!!!!

If you want to be the first who rides a Timberwolf you have to pay. If it's too expensive for you, no problem, just wait and play to get it! So what's the problem?!?!

[Thorn Hallis]

Saber1, on 15 December 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

How many titles were built with less?

How many? Names and numbers please.

[Atheus]

Grishnakh, on 16 December 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

It's the Internet where everything has to be for free!!!!

If you want to be the first who rides a Timberwolf you have to pay. If it's too expensive for you, no problem, just wait and play to get it! So what's the problem?!?!

So... we have absolutely no idea how they're planning to balance clan tech, but suffice it to say that clan mechs should be worlds stronger than IS mechs. You think it's a good idea for paying players to have access to clan tech first? At first glance it seems reasonable — you pay, you get better stuff, right? But what happens to the players who aren't planning to pony up real cash? There is basically no reason to play the game if you're going to be stuck in inferior mechs, right? At the very least it gives you a pretty good reason to go spend some time looking at other games, at least until the clan mechs are available to all players. Maybe they have a plan for that. I sure hope they do.