1978 replies to this topic

[Ziogualty]

To sum it up:
"We are currently figuring out how to shape a sphere into a square and still having fans throwing money at us".

Of course they still don't have a clue, except for some amazing sketch paints.

It will be fun to follow how this will evolve!

Edited by Attank, 16 December 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Monky]

A few requests;

No tonnage changes to equipment (please for the love of mechs)

Allow armor pre-sets for clan mechs (not customizable but you can choose a better level of protection) as the name of the game is armor, clan mechs running stock will (mostly) get smoked, and if you counterbalance with weapons superiority, how do you re-fix it when IS mechs start getting clan weapons?

Min heatsinks, fixed engine/endo/ferro and equipment are all good ideas. Having one or two 'fixed' weapons where appropriate works as well.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

Degalus, on 16 December 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

The sad truth is... it wouldnt work in MWO. Focusfire is just too strong in this game.
No matter what the mech is 50t or 100t if a 3 mechs shoot at 1 target its dead (beside of spiders they still a pain in the a.)
I would also like to see real clantech and asymetical mode but it just wouldnt work. Same with the honor rules. Soloruners vs a group? That maybe work in tt but here our pilots can aim.
I see Atlas fall in seconds so how should real clans work in mwo?

I actually disagree. The whole point is that focus fire is only an issue when we're talking about "pop-tarts". Which is, by itself, still a major community gripe. Eliminate that through a proper normalization of pin-point alpha damage while in the air and that problem disappears. This leaves us with superior mechs and superior weapons against a numerically superior enemy. Once the different phases start rolling out, the discrepancy between numbers and firepower is normalized and both sides end up playing on a more-or-less equal playing field. At which point we have the Clans deep enough in the Inner Sphere for them to have a viable foot-hold, the Inner Sphere has the tools to defend themselves and both sides are equally matched by Phase 3.

[Alek Ituin]

Monky, on 16 December 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

A few requests;

No tonnage changes to equipment (please for the love of mechs)

Allow armor pre-sets for clan mechs (not customizable but you can choose a better level of protection) as the name of the game is armor, clan mechs running stock will (mostly) get smoked, and if you counterbalance with weapons superiority, how do you re-fix it when IS mechs start getting clan weapons?

Min heatsinks, fixed engine/endo/ferro and equipment are all good ideas. Having one or two 'fixed' weapons where appropriate works as well.

Having presets with each variant would just be a great idea in general. Varaint A has X engine, Variant B get Y engine but more tonnage/armor, Variant C gets Z engine but less armor/tonnage... Same goes for each part of the 'Mech if we get to Frankenstein them things together. Each one has an advantage and a tradeoff, meaning you optimize the parts for your build.

[Kyynele]

I like piloting light mechs.

So, current plans are that you can't change the engine or armor. Looks like we'll have clan lights that have a max speed of 106 kph with speed tweak? Even if they pack more firepower, those are going to make the Locust look like god mode in comparison. :/

[Alek Ituin]

Kyynele, on 16 December 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

I like piloting light mechs.

So, current plans are that you can't change the engine or armor. Looks like we'll have clan lights that have a max speed of 106 kph with speed tweak? Even if they pack more firepower, those are going to make the Locust look like god mode in comparison. :/

Correction: Lolcust IS Godmode.

You just aren't running it right obviously.

[Orgasmo]

Basic unit of Clans: Star (5 mechs)
Basic unit of Inner Sphere: Lance (4 mechs)

1 Star vs 2 Lances (5 Clan vs 8 IS)
2 Stars vs 4 Lances (10 Clan vs 16 IS)

BOOM! Balance achieved without Clan nerfing required.

[Moe Zart]

I see two options for balancing with CLAN tech:

1) Do not implement CLAN tech - leave IS and let us play Succession Wars. This is not really an option, because many players want to use CLAN tech. Maybe you can run different campaings with and without clans in the IS.

2) Do not "nerf" CLAN tech. It is superior over IS tech. Any balancing would contradict fictional background. Instead I suggest to adapt the matchmaker. Let 9 CLAN mechs fight against 12 IS mechs.

By the way, if you share your thoughts on balancing CLAN and IS tech, please state examples for ballistic weapons, too,

[Kyynele]

Alek Ituin, on 16 December 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Correction: Lolcust IS Godmode.

You just aren't running it right obviously.

Yeah, I'm sure that at 106kph max speed it would be EVEN BETTER.

I do hope that was a joke. I do well enough in Locusts, every other light is just much easier to get similar results in.

[Alek Ituin]

Kyynele, on 16 December 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm sure that at 106kph max speed it would be EVEN BETTER.

I do hope that was a joke. I do well enough in Locusts, every other light is just much easier to get similar results in.

Yes, it was a joke. I'm just a hardcore Lolcust jockey is all, gotta promote my favorite little underdog (undercricket?).

[WolfinExile]

Hi PGI, I like all the Clan mech designs, save one. The Timber Wolf that is plastered over your clan mech page.

Spoiler

The proportions are all wonky, and it looks more like a Mad Cat MKII, which looks okay in its own right, but it doesn't have the classic Timber Wolf profile.

I've taken the liberty to edit this otherwise brilliant piece of concept art to be a closer match to the iconic predatory look of the Timber Wolf. I hope that you'll do some proportion tweaking so the final in-game design looks closer to this, thanks.

[Kotzi]

Quote

Disclaimer:
While the descriptions below are the most up to date plans for Clan Tech, please be advised that ALL numbers and examples are for demonstration purposes only. Any number or description can be changed in the future, but these are the most current plans for Clan Tech and we wanted to show you the plans for clarity and transparency.

That makes the post obselete.

[ElCadaver]

Just give us the computerised version of Battletech Mechs, IS and Clan.

Leave stats alone.

Set the 3 Lance/2 Star Ratio.

Structure Clan and IS rewards based on philosophy of the books (I.e Single Combat for Clans)

Let the SCENARIOS in which you place the mechs act as the balancing point (Like what happened in the books)

Engage the hard core fans who make up the initial player base to guide other players to the IS and Clan philosophies of warfare. through community warfare. Give them something to do and trust them to do it. ( they trusted you with their money, after all)

You are building on what is already a hugely successful franchise. why do you guys (PGI) think you are smarter than the guys who made Battletech? Stop ruining it, get out of your own way, and give people what they want.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

WolfinExile, on 16 December 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Hi PGI, I like all the Clan mech designs, save one. The Timber Wolf that is plastered over your clan mech page.

Spoiler

The proportions are all wonky, and it looks more like a Mad Cat MKII, which looks okay in its own right, but it doesn't have the classic Timber Wolf profile.

I've taken the liberty to edit this otherwise brilliant piece of concept art to be a closer match to the iconic predatory look of the Timber Wolf. I hope that you'll do some proportion tweaking so the final in-game design looks closer to this, thanks.

It's almost certainly a clipping issue. If you have the arms closer in as you have moved them, then they would hit the hips as the mech's torso twisted. Much of the early art for MW ignored stuff like this because they didn't have to animate 3D models.

[Alek Ituin]

ElCadaver, on 16 December 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

Just give us the computerised version of Battletech Mechs, IS and Clan.

Leave stats alone.

Set the 3 Lance/2 Star Ratio.

Structure Clan and IS rewards based on philosophy of the books (I.e Single Combat for Clans)

Let the SCENARIOS in which you place the mechs act as the balancing point (Like what happened in the books)

Engage the hard core fans who make up the initial player base to guide other players to the IS and Clan philosophies of warfare. through community warfare. Give them something to do and trust them to do it. ( they trusted you with their money, after all)

You are building on what is already a hugely successful franchise. why do you guys (PGI) think you are smarter than the guys who made Battletech? Stop ruining it, get out of your own way, and give people what they want.

Didn't the people who wrote the Clan rules say they deeply regretted making them as OP as they were? And that if given the chance, they would NEVER do so again?

Just saying...

[Degalus]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 16 December 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

I actually disagree. The whole point is that focus fire is only an issue when we're talking about "pop-tarts". Which is, by itself, still a major community gripe. Eliminate that through a proper normalization of pin-point alpha damage while in the air and that problem disappears. This leaves us with superior mechs and superior weapons against a numerically superior enemy. Once the different phases start rolling out, the discrepancy between numbers and firepower is normalized and both sides end up playing on a more-or-less equal playing field. At which point we have the Clans deep enough in the Inner Sphere for them to have a viable foot-hold, the Inner Sphere has the tools to defend themselves and both sides are equally matched by Phase 3.

The atlas i mentioned die not because of poptarts or pinpoint guys. A 4xac5 cataphract, a 5xmlaser 1xac20 cataphract and a 2xac10 4mlaser catapult killed him in seconds. The Clans would only have a chance if they would have so much firepower that they nearly onehit other mechs and thats not what i call balance.

ps.:
I love Clans. I buyed the 240 dolla pack before the clantechbalance thread and i still think they going the right direction to balance this game.
Think the other way. What is if they say " k you get your tt rules and lore now but we must nerf IS for that" no engine change no weaponchange , i think noone would play IS anymore.

Pss.: I as a Clanner dislike stomping IS 2 of 3 phases before they have the tech to do anything vs clans

Edited by Degalus, 16 December 2013 - 02:37 AM.

[Xelrah]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:
Due to spam abuse. This image has been removed. Please provide feedback in written form.


You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

Logged in after a few months just to upvote this.

Edited by Xelrah, 16 December 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[WolfinExile]

RocketDog, on 16 December 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

It's almost certainly a clipping issue. If you have the arms closer in as you have moved them, then they would hit the hips as the mech's torso twisted. Much of the early art for MW ignored stuff like this because they didn't have to animate 3D models.

Its possible to make it so that the arms don't clip into the hips, the hips can be narrower, and the hip joint part can be smaller as well without making a noticeable aesthetic impact on the overall design.

As proof, here's a low poly 3d timber wolf:

Spoiler

There's enough clearance around the waist area for the arms, so they don't clip even with torso twisting. They also have enough clearance to allow for arm movement.

Making a Timber Wolf model that both looks accurate to the classic silhouette and work ingame without clipping issues is very much possible.

Edited by WolfinExile, 16 December 2013 - 02:49 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Degalus, on 16 December 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

The atlas i mentioned die not because of poptarts or pinpoint guys. A 4xac5 cataphract, a 5xmlaser 1xac20 cataphract and a 2xac10 4mlaser catapult killed him in seconds. The Clans would only have a chance if they would have so much firepower that they nearly onehit other mechs and thats not what i call balance.

so they one hit a mech... whilst the other 2 combine and pummel him in exactly the same fasion. because 3 beats 1.

Degalus, on 16 December 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

ps.:
I love Clans. I buyed the 240 dolla pack before the clantechbalance thread and i still think they going the right direction to balance this game.
Think the other way. What is if they say " k you get your tt rules and lore now but we must nerf IS for that" no engine change no weaponchange , i think noone would play IS anymore.

but they're not so strawman is mute.

Degalus, on 16 December 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Pss.: I as a Clanner dislike stomping IS 2 of 3 phases before they have the tech to do anything vs clans

but everyone with a brain has toldem don't give clans equal numbers. if they implemented dropship style mode into the game a clan team could face 3-4 waves of IS players so the IS can have respawns {new experience} the IS get many more numbers and the clans don't have to be ruined for "balance". everyone wins!

[Ensaine]

THIS is a Timberwolf:





What this concept art is, I have no clue. Maybe a later variant? Looks like a TW on steroids......looks nice, just not a TW.

Edited by Ensaine, 16 December 2013 - 03:00 AM.