12 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Hi,

I just wanted to point out one section of the design plan for clans. Clan mechs will NOT be customizable in the same way that IS mechs currently are. Clan mechs will be able to fit clan weapons and swap weapon pods with different hard points between variants. However, the engine (type and rating), base heat sinks, armor, and other characteristics of the mech will NOT be customizable the way IS mechs can be customized.

Engine and armor are FIXED. You won't be able to adjust speed or switch to XL engines to allow for additional heat sinks or tonnage. Clan weapons will take less crits and less tonnage but you will not be able to make full use of this by changing engines/armor or base heat sinks. So ... although clan weapons may be somewhat more effective than their IS counterparts ... you will NOT be able to customize clan mechs to take full advantage of these differences. This appears to be how they plan to achieve balance between mechs when balancing weapons themselves is an almost impossible task. (i.e. if you implement clan and IS versions of the same weapon then one will always be better than the other ... precise balance is almost impossible to obtain ... one will always be better).

However, if the mechs that use the better weapons are implicitly weaker due to lack of customization options then you will probably get a balance of sorts between clan mechs and IS mechs).

So for those buying the clan mech packs ... keep in mind the planned limitations on the mechs so that you are not surprised when they are rolled out ...

http://mwomercs.com/...gn-perspective/

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Now there wouldn’t be balanced unless it came with a cost. In this case, the ability to customize hardpoints comes with the tabletop OmniMech restrictions. All the configurations of a given OmniMech are based around a base configuration (not to be confused with the Prime configuration). This is the core of the Mech, with all the modular bits stripped out, and what remains cannot be customized at all. These include:

• The engine type and rating
  
• The number and placement of a minimum number of heatsinks
  
• The amount and distribution of armor
  
• The armor type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Ferro-Fibrous
  
• The internal structure type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Endo Steel
  
• Enhancements such as MASC
  
• The occasional weapon or other piece of equipment (e.g. jump jets) that is included as part of the base configuration

We aim to follow these as closely as possible, but the restrictions may be eased if gameplay and balance require it.
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[Sybreed]

is it me or you'll need 2 Clan mechs to even start having customization?

[FupDup]

Sybreed, on 15 December 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

is it me or you'll need 2 Clan mechs to even start having customization?

Well, you can probably create a few cookie-cutter loadouts with your existing hardpoints and pod space on a single variant. With a fixed amount of weight and slots that can be used on weapons, I can't imagine a very wide variety of loadouts emerging (especially because you have limited hardpoints on top of that).

Edited by FupDup, 15 December 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[Kael Tropheus]

A good start.

[Flying Blind]

between this and the way they are balancing clan tech weapons it seems pretty obvious that the clan mechs are going to be straight inferior to IS mechs. Sad, but kinda funny.

[Sybreed]

FupDup, on 15 December 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Well, you can probably create a few cookie-cutter loadouts with your existing hardpoints and pod space on a single variant. With a fixed amount of weight and slots that can be used on weapons, I can't imagine a very wide variety of loadouts emerging (especially because you have limited hardpoints on top of that).

/Sigh

there's a game designer position opening at PGI. I'd gladly take it for the sole condition that I do things my way and have no Paul, Russ or Bryan come tell me what to do

[GODzillaGSPB]

Sybreed, on 15 December 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

/Sigh

there's a game designer position opening at PGI. I'd gladly take it for the sole condition that I do things my way and have no Paul, Russ or Bryan come tell me what to do

That's how they operate now. Paul, Russ and Bryan do things their way and have noone - not the community, not the 30-year-old-BT-lore, not the common sense ringing at their door like crazy - come tell them what to do.

[Chemie]

stock armor...epic fail for many variants.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Chemie, on 15 December 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

stock armor...epic fail for many variants.

AND stock engine.I see some1 playing that 30t Kit Fox(Uller) running at 97 kph with 4 tons of armor.So dumb.
I can see how it do not make any difference on daishi if you can load 2xuac20+2xCERPPC at stock speed.
But those restrictions are death sentence on mechs 20-50t.Those mechs are just DOA and I do not mention you have there Nova(black hawk) which is 50t AND running at 87kph with more weapons...so what you choose to play?

[oldradagast]

The irony is mindblowing.

1) Sell people lots of virtual, in-game shinies... then, later, explain how they work... if you get around to it. Anybody know what that warhorn does yet? Right...

2) Guarantee that the Clans - the folks who are supposed to have a technology edge and very customizable mechs - will have inferior technology with fewer customization options by badly limiting key aspects of their mechs to terrible table top designs.

3) "Balance" this by providing no aspects of Clan roleplaying whatsoever, claiming that it "wouldn't be fun," while ignoring how that roleplaying is a key part of the lore and the only real way to balance out their superior technology. Also, don't even ask the player base if they want the roleplaying or not - just don't put it in.

My prediction: Most Clan mechs will be DOA thanks to limiting their armor, engines, etc, a few will be horribly broken and utterly dominate the game. The same idea applies to their weapons - most of them will be strange, gimpy, and vastly different from tabletop, while a few will be badly overpowered. The game will then stagnate terribly since only a few mechs and builds will be competitive - even worse than today - and people will wander away in droves since the game will lack any depth and most IS mechs and tech will be worthless, resulting in everyone needed to basically start over.

Good game, PGI... Good Game...

Edited by oldradagast, 15 December 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[Kael Tropheus]

Lost at the hate here. Clan mech stock is already head and heels above IS customized. Theyautomatically have XL engines, ferro armor, endosteel, and double heat sinks. With these restrictions in place it allows clan weapons to be badass. Restricts gun boating.

Now what needs to be massively changed is Clan pilot need to have a seperate character and hanger, no cross tech at all, period. Honor based economy as opposed to c-bills. Easily figured by existing coding and giving no assist bonuses, and only the first person who shoots a mech gets the exp(and only if they do majority damage), and bonus exp for hitting a largeer chassis. Easily incorporated and will give a very different feel to the clan factions.

[Sqweebs]

Kael Tropheus, on 15 December 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Restricts gun boating.

Now last time I checked, all hardpoints on an omni mech were...well, omni. I have a feeling we'll see more boats on clan mechs than the IS ones. Sad really.

[Mcgral18]

Sqweebs, on 15 December 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Now last time I checked, all hardpoints on an omni mech were...well, omni. I have a feeling we'll see more boats on clan mechs than the IS ones. Sad really.

From what I gathered from the CC post, you can swap arms and torso's between the variants, each having different hardpoints, although each variant is static in it's choice. Some hardpoints are static, such as CT and head.

As such, you get a decent selection of hardpoints, but are gimped for armor and engine in some cases.