77 replies to this topic

[Hillslam]

I support Paul's approach.

I for one don't want to drop in paper bags against uber mechs.

I'm not interested in 12v10, 12v8, 12v6, 12v5, or 12v4. Any "Boss" battle that isn't PvE is STUPID GAME DESIGN.

Give us the option to fight IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan, or Clan vs IS - for those masochistic fools that like feeding themselves to the ego of some flabby cheetos'stained nerd fantasizing himeself to be a genetically bred warrior from beyond the stars.

But if you force Clan mechs vs IS mechs then EVERY SINGLE PAYING CUSTOMER better have access to every piece of equipment in the game.

Take your roleplaying, zellbriggen, self-aggrandizing, larping, Entitlement-expecting selves and whine somewhere else.

[Jack Corban]

Hillslam, on 15 December 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I support Paul's approach.

I for one don't want to drop in paper bags against uber mechs.

I'm not interested in 12v10, 12v8, 12v6, 12v5, or 12v4. Any "Boss" battle that isn't PvE is STUPID GAME DESIGN.

Give us the option to fight IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan, or Clan vs IS - for those masochistic fools that like feeding themselves to the ego of some flabby cheetos'stained nerd fantasizing himeself to be a genetically bred warrior from beyond the stars.

But if you force Clan mechs vs IS mechs then EVERY SINGLE PAYING CUSTOMER better have access to every piece of equipment in the game.

Take your roleplaying, zellbriggen, self-aggrandizing, larping, Entitlement-expecting selves and whine somewhere else.

I'm starting to get the feeling that you and Artgathan or going through every topic screening it for discussions related to clans in any way or form and copy paste the same HATE post over and over. If your argument is Clans = OP **** of doom without making any qualified statments why this is the case then this only illustrates to the rest of us that you are nothing but afraid of change.

The way you present yourselfe here is pittyfull at best.

Cheers,

Jack Corban

[Undercover Brother]

My understanding is that until the in-game-timeline reaches around 3060, if you want to pilot CLAN tech, you must fight as a CLAN unit. If THAT is the case, the Zellbrigen CAN be implemented. If you can big down YOUR target, by YOURSELF, you get a bonus. Its SIMPLE. If you can't take that mech down by yourself, you lose the bonus. It'll make CLAN pilots handicap themselves if you get more for fighting LIKE a CLANNER, then you do by just winning a match.

No matter what, people will whine about CLANs being OP, or CLAN tech being NERFed, or PAY-TO-WIN...

The ideas I'm pushing create a handicapping system without rewriting the BATTLETECH history, still allowing for creative, cooperative, and FUN gameplay, while balancing out the rough spots. As the timeline continues with the game, STAR LEAGUE tech, and then CLAN tech will become more readily available, mod systems will need to be created to allow CLAN tech on I.S. mechs, and then the I.S. OMNIMECHs will eventually come to fruition. After Tukayyid,the CLANs DROPPED Zellbrigen...

As for using CLAN and I.S. tech in a unit:
I NEVER implied I.S. units should be penalized for fighting alongside CLAN units...
I DID suggest that, as a CLAN unit (remember that devs originally said you were either fighting AS a CLANNER, AGAINST the I.S., or you were I.S. AGAINST the CLANS). You're assuming a group fighting as I.S. will be fighting with CLAN tech at all. This goes contrary to what the devs originally intended.

Try READING before you decide to get your panties all in a bunch.

Edited by T Decker, 15 December 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Hythos, on 15 December 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

We have a patially working game now. A simple tutorial explaing Clan Code of Honor should suffice.
If players were penalized for attacking anothers' target to the point where they fail objectives, hence earn no exp, no credits, no honor, they won't last very long.
I view Clan tech in MWO as a Jedi slot was in SWG - it took dedication and at least an understading of the game...
Vs
Jedi in SWtoR where anyone could start as one and cheapen the idea.


In your arguement, why would ANYONE play an I.S. unit ever again once they "earn" their Clan badge through any manner?

** Edit - if some troll shoots anothers' target, that troll loses, not the troll's entire team.
Clans intentionally fight with lighter 'Mechs and smaller forces because it is the challenge and display of superior tech+ability - THAT is the spirit of the Clans - not - "Our weapons are just like yours, except we drink tea and not coffee".

Zellbrigen or "Clan Honor" does simply not apply for real warfare. Clever IS commanders managed to convince Clan warriors to adhere to Zellbrigen to gain an advantage. The Clans learned this soon enough.
And fundamentally, these rules don't apply anymore the moment the enemy ignores them.

So any such penalties fly in the face of the lore application of them.

[Lefty Lucy]

MustrumRidcully, on 16 December 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Zellbrigen or "Clan Honor" does simply not apply for real warfare. Clever IS commanders managed to convince Clan warriors to adhere to Zellbrigen to gain an advantage. The Clans learned this soon enough.
And fundamentally, these rules don't apply anymore the moment the enemy ignores them.

So any such penalties fly in the face of the lore application of them.

Yep. People forget that all but the most rigid of Clans figured out pretty damned fast not to bother with Zellbrigen against any but the most honorable of IS opponents. And even then they're pretty quick to drop it if they notice the enemy's not playing along.

[Jimmy Page]

You guys argue about balance when not one line of code has been written for CW. It NEVER will. Cash grab and then go out of business is PGI's model. Is there anything new since "launch"? NO

[Alcom Isst]

aseth, on 15 December 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure he picked NARC Beacons as a snarky example of something nobody would ever actually want to do. It's the type of thing systems designers are especially noted for.

Sure, but I don't think Paul has the PR built up so most readers may assume humor rather than ignorance. Though now that you mention it, humor is still also very possible.

[Karl Streiger]

Alcom Isst, on 16 December 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

Sure, but I don't think Paul has the PR built up so most readers may assume humor rather than ignorance. Though now that you mention it, humor is still also very possible.

Its a kind of humor few people will understand or regarding their money will laugh about.
Gallows humor at best - or mocking humor at worst - regarding posts i have seen from so called Community Managers - i think its more a kind of the last.
Mocking humor -guys you know we don't like the concept of NARCs its more about team game - and we don't like team plays in our game. Thats why you don't have good communication tools or lobbys and the only good C-Bill gain is about damage - not team play.

- However I'm curious if we will be able to see some
Dire Wolf Prime/Bs or Thor D/Cs or Nova Prime/A/B/Cs and TimberWolf Prime/Bs

[Prezimonto]

Deadmeat313, on 15 December 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I have to say I agree with pretty much everything Paul said.

CLRMs with no minimum range would have been ludicrous. I'd drop the minimum to 150m (or 120m) though.
SSRMs ripple-firing sounds pretty cool.
Longer duration on ER lasers makes them still useful, but requiring a bit more skill to get the full benefit.

The modification limitations to OmniMechs sounds like a perfectly good way to give them a different flavour.

Personally, I think the Clans *should* be somewhat overpowered compared to the Inner Sphere - but balanced in other ways.
My suggestion would be to have them either drop 10 v 12 - or 12 v 12 but with a lower drop weight.

If the Clans are nerfed to oblivion from the outset then the whole Clan Invasion might be a damp squib.

D313

Instead of the damage fall off, what I'd like to see is the CLRM launcher allow to fire for damage but with no lock, the way LRM's currently work against fat slow assaults with no ECM cover.

The biggest thing to remember is that if LRM's ever get to be broken level of play you'll just huddle under an ECM umbrella, ella, ella when you push forward.

Streaks are also broken by ECM... having a streak problem? have 2 ECM mechs stick together and you'll rarely have anyone who can even fire their weapons against you.

[Artgathan]

Jack Corban, on 15 December 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

I'm starting to get the feeling that you and Artgathan or going through every topic screening it for discussions related to clans in any way or form and copy paste the same HATE post over and over. If your argument is Clans = OP **** of doom without making any qualified statments why this is the case then this only illustrates to the rest of us that you are nothing but afraid of change.

The way you present yourselfe here is pittyfull at best.

Cheers,

Jack Corban

This is actually the first sort of thread like this I've participated in, but good on your for doing your research!

Additionally, a very good argument could be made for the fact that the "people afraid of chance" are the ones opposed to the new balance changes proposed by PGI. Balancing this game according to TT would actually be the opposite of change - it would be maintaining the status quo.

I also made no statements about why Clans were OP - I was analyzing how Zellbringen and asymmetric team numbers would break down in a PVP FPS environment. I said nothing about actual clan technology.

[Lupus Aurelius]

Inbalancing, brought to you by R. Bollocks and P. Inureye...

[General Taskeen]

Folks, just use reverse psychology. Instead of saying Dev should not do X, say Dev SHOULD do X. That way they evaluate their stance at the time.


But anyways, Paul might mean well, but we also have to face facts - current mechanics are pretty much in need of out right overhauls. Clan weapons that run hotter? Ok, good luck with that with MWO's current heat sink system. While it means well, and is a sound way to balance Clan Weapons, it will annoy people. Other Mech Warrior games like MW3 or even MW:LL had hotter Clan weapons, but their heatsink system mechanics made it reasonable to deal with hotter Clan weapons.

Clan Mechs that can't customize armor/engines/etc.? Well that's fine in Stock Mech Land (which I want), but let's face the next fact - IS Mechs that can strip out everything willy nilly and plop in the fastest Engine possible. I say good luck trying to compete in the famous 97.2 km/h Clan Light Mechs. A 11 DHS 2 ER PPC Puma will run hotter than the sun in MWO and pounded into dust by 150 km/h Hot Rods - while in MW3 it can actually survive and compete in a stock configuration.


But eh, whatevs. Like I predicted long ago when theorizing Clan Mechs in this game, they won't actually be OP since MWO can't decide what it wants to be by adding TT mechanics and in other cases simply ignoring TT, while additionally having a plethora of underlying issues that transcend any perceived "op" or "up" weapon (child's play arguments in comparison to underlying issues).

Edited by General Taskeen, 16 December 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Greyfyl, on 15 December 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

I still visit the forums on occasion....haven't played MWO in ages though. I keep hoping to hear that the Paul and Russ have been kicked to the curb and the game has been saved from them.

It should have been obvious from the arrogance and just god-awful decisions shown by PGI as far back as closed beta that this game would not progress very far.....OBVIOUS.

Ahhh, ok. A personal vendetta, based on a video game, then. Got it. Each to their own I suppose.

3rdworld, on 15 December 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

The IP.

And because I recognize the failings of the game as far as balance (not that balance is its only failing) does not mean I don't enjoy the game. Just wish it were better.

And potty mouth? Really?

Ahhh. The IP card. Got it. Carry on then. Hey, pottie passed the filter didn't it.

[Almond Brown]

Jimmy Page, on 16 December 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

You guys argue about balance when not one line of code has been written for CW. It NEVER will. Cash grab and then go out of business is PGI's model. Is there anything new since "launch"? NO

Your premise has a flaw Jimmy. If plausible, let alone bear any truth, then "Founders" would have been the last "Cash Grab" and close the doors right?

Wait for it. Then as it was not, then it had to have been after the "Phoenix" pack "Cash Grab" right?

OK, wait for it, again. Since that was not it either, then it would have to have happened after the "Phoenix Upgrade" pack "Cash Grab" right?

Well, it has not happened yet and folk, like yourself, who are not in this game for the "long haul", should just really chill and simply move on. Your bs rhetoric is just noise dude. Bothersome, ugly noise...

Edited by Almond Brown, 16 December 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hillslam, on 15 December 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I support Paul's approach.

I for one don't want to drop in paper bags against uber mechs.

I'm not interested in 12v10, 12v8, 12v6, 12v5, or 12v4. Any "Boss" battle that isn't PvE is STUPID GAME DESIGN.

Give us the option to fight IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan, or Clan vs IS - for those masochistic fools that like feeding themselves to the ego of some flabby cheetos'stained nerd fantasizing himeself to be a genetically bred warrior from beyond the stars.

But if you force Clan mechs vs IS mechs then EVERY SINGLE PAYING CUSTOMER better have access to every piece of equipment in the game.

Take your roleplaying, zellbriggen, self-aggrandizing, larping, Entitlement-expecting selves and whine somewhere else.

A question. Why did you invest in Inner Sphere Founder Pack when you knew we were going to be facing the Clans? I dropped my Money knowing I was going to spar with the Jade Falcons. I also knew they were supposed to kick my ash for many months to come. Now I here that my UberClan enemy is going to be no better than a House unit? Really? I for one am disappointed that my enemy is no going to be better than me nor will he force me to step up my game. I wasted my time grinding v the Mighty Meta builds o prepare for what was to come. Only to find out my enemy will never be that powerful!


I am disappointed.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 December 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Hythos]

MustrumRidcully, on 16 December 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Zellbrigen or "Clan Honor" does simply not apply for real warfare. Clever IS commanders managed to convince Clan warriors to adhere to Zellbrigen to gain an advantage. The Clans learned this soon enough.
And fundamentally, these rules don't apply anymore the moment the enemy ignores them.

So any such penalties fly in the face of the lore application of them.

That 'soon enough' was *after* Tukayyid (which was how the Focht defeated them in the first place); however, in this time-frame, it would be required of any Clan warrior to adhere to the idea.
Their requirement of zellbrigen would still be explicitly strict through the next many years real-time - and would still be especially so, for Clan-vs-Clan engagemets.

[Evinthal]

Lucian Nostra, on 15 December 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Ammo storage is going to be another nightmare like you said as well since it will be in the torso's and arms unlike all our IS machines running it safely in the legs and Head.

Ammo location doesn't matter as much in a clan mech as it does for an inner sphere mech because all clan omni mechs have CASE mounted in every single location and it is weightless and doesn't take up critical. This is something I think a lot of people are conveniently forgetting. So yes it might be arm mounted ammo, but if it explodes it will not transfer and take out your torso too.

Of course this is assuming PGI maintains this feature of clan battlemechs.

[Fuerety]

MisterPlanetarian, on 15 December 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

90% of your post is just impotent rage. Not one of your outtakes come with a serious conter proposal. Pauls Clan stuff needs quite a bit of tuning to say the least and i agree with you on that. But I am quite sure he will litsen to feedback since he mentioned no less than twice that it was not final by a long shot, why does it not suprise me that you missed that bit?


My advice: Take a break, go watch the hobbit or something and come back after the holidays when you get your DX11 UI2.0. Thats exactly what I am doing.

Where at all do you have concrete evidence that ui 2.0 and DX11 will be here directly after the holidays our out at all. I remember Someone mentioning/promising basicly that it would be coming out the month of Oct patches Via twitter, it never happened