9 replies to this topic

[juxstapo]

Let me clarify, I'm aiming for a tactics, strategy, and methods discussion; not a collection of smurfy links. Those certainly have their place, but we certainly have plenty of them.

It seems that, with a few notable exceptions, each chassis has some definite pros, and although it isn't mandatory, it behooves one to play to those strengths. Personally, I'd peg the Victor solidly in the brawling category.
Although several Victor loadouts, such as the stock DS and 9K, seem to favor a sniping strategy, Frankly I think those low slung arms show that to be a lie. Even the Dragon Slayer's chest beam mount is abysmally low. The jump jets overcome this somewhat, but only to a degree.

No, where the thing shines to me is either 1 on 1 to-the-death or creating confusion within a clumped up group. Now that I've finally gotten proficient with the new Gauss, I use it as a brawling weapon that can engage as I close.

The one on one is kinduv a desperation strategy. I'm confident my Victors can negate any other assault, fortune willing, however dueling like this burns a great deal of your mech out. And frequently sheds enough armor and ammo to render you no longer viable for the rest of the match. In specific circumstance, like that extremely proficient DDC, or the LrgLaser stalker thats been harvesting your group, it can be warranted. Just have to learn to spot when those times are, and when you're being wasteful by going headhunting.
To benefit the team in the long term, I've had success using my Victors for hit and fade attacks. It's relatively high mobility (run an XL385 in most of 'em, 360 in one), and decent armor/hitboxes allow it to attack and withdraw a few times while staying functional. I don't feel it serves well as part of a firing line, however. Negating the mobility by engaging in static combat, ducking in and out of cover and the like, seems an inefficient use of the mech. That task is better left to Highlanders and Atlai.
My favorite thing to see is 1 to 3 opponets firing at my teammates, in a position where I can jump in and deal an appreciable amount of damage, whlie having an escape route planned ahead of time.
The other thing the Victor does well is serve as a force multiplier. I really feel that an Atlas and a Victor is worth more than two Atlas, even thought the VTR can't soak damage nearly as well and only fields about 2/3rds the firepower. Having an Atlas engage a formation while the Victor goes up and over is pure bliss.

How do you do it?

Edited by juxstapo, 15 December 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

http://www.twitch.tv/jagerxii

I just watch this guy's stream and do what he does.

[oldradagast]

Standard 300 (for durability and decent speed)

AC 20 in the right arm
2 Large lasers in the left.
2 Jump Jets - and use them in a brawl.

Decent mix of ranges, not the best alpha, but good focus of damage on target. Use the Jump Jets, and you can swing those arms to hit targets while flying. It's not some "uber build" but it works well for me and keeps up steady pressure while still functioning even if half the mech is blown away.

[juxstapo]

I can totally dig it radagast. Ran that for a while, then upped it to dual LrgPulse. (thats my 360 build). Find the speed more than covers the durability.

Now.. builds aside, what are your tactics?

Moobs, that dude's stream rocks.

[Elyam]

Jet agility is key. If I take a few weeks or months off from the VTR, like I did while training the first Phoenix batch, I do lose my edge. But when I'm really in the zone, disruption of enemy groups - with solid timing - is my favorite thing. Constant maneuvering, ensuring incoming damage spreads to all sections, making sure enemies risk shooting their own if they turn to engage me - since I'm in among them and working the angles to cause it. Timing is best when you know other friendlies are following you in soon after or are already in the furball. After initial work to confuse everything, then I start looking for targets to finish off - those wounded most by me and near allies. Or I look for the most effective enemy and go for a fast kill, which is often a headshot.

Right now I only own the S, but I'll get the K back in the stable soon for the extra jets. I lean toward several builds, typically with AC/10 plus 2 medium beams and full SRM-A or drop the SRMs and upgrade to heavy beams. Engines 315XL to 385XL. I prefer the higher fire rate of the 10 and still have great results with SRMs, despite the present issues. I tend to fire the racks separately - a bit of a superstition I have that they work better than this way than as a combined salvo.

[Blue Splint]

Here are a few thoughts about the Victor's best role that I've been jotting down recently. These came up when debating between meta-compliant builds (essentially, builds without missiles).

-Low-slung arms carrying much of weapons (even on DS to some extent). Low-mounted weapons generally favor brawling.

-Wide-set arms carrying much of weapons (doesn't really apply to the DS). This means that if you need to lead a target by shooting off-target, convergence will be an issue. Again, this favors brawling. The closer you are to your target, the less you need to lead it and the more often you can have pinpoint convergence by leading on the target's leading component. Wide-set arms thus favor shorter range fighting.

-The distance remaining between projectiles when you hit is:

D_remaining = Distance between arms * (1 - Distance to enemy / Distance to backdrop for lead-shot)

We want to minimize D_remaining, and thus to bring D_enemy/D_backdrop as close to 1 as possible. Mostly, this will statistically occur more when the enemy is far. If enemy is at 500m, that ratio will realistically be about .3 or .25 at worst (1.5km - 2km backdrop). If enemy is at 100m, that ratio can easily be 0.1 or less (1km+ backdrop). Then, there's the fact that sky/out-of-map backdrop is infinite, in which case D_enemy doesn't matter. All this together tends to favor longer-range fighting, but only marginally.

-Having all weapons in the arms allows for faster twitch shooting. No need to press shift, and response speed is not limited by the torso twist speed. Twitch shooting is the most important when targets are few and far between; in a brawl or short-range fight, you can usually take more time to shoot since targets are plentiful and heat will be your limiting factor anyway. This twitch-shooting speed thus favors mid- and long-range fighting.

-Having all weapons in the arms hurts your ability to shoulder damage. When you're under fire, you will likely lose an arm fairly quickly (unless you're not shielding, then you'll just die), and with that half your weapons. The C-bill victors thus have a higher [capacity to deal dmg]/[capacity to take dmg without significant loss of performance] than, say, the DS or a highlander (even if you scaled HGN armor down to Victor levels). This suggests a more ranged/fire-support approach.


I think it's clear that the DS is a sniper. It's a mini-HGN or oversized CTF anyway, and plays quite similar.

As for the other Victors, their low-slung arms (have to jump higher to jump-shoot, and thus be more exposed) favor short-range fighting, whereas having all weapons in the arms favors long-range fighting. The fact that the arms are wide-set seems to favor short-range fighting slightly.

It seems to me that Victors are about equally suited to the ac20+2ppc type builds as they are to ranged sniper setups. SRMs being fixed would not change this much, as there is a lack of tubes. In my experience, I've done better with longer-ranged setups.

Edited by Blue Splint, 15 December 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[oldradagast]

juxstapo, on 15 December 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

I can totally dig it radagast. Ran that for a while, then upped it to dual LrgPulse. (thats my 360 build). Find the speed more than covers the durability.

Now.. builds aside, what are your tactics?

Moobs, that dude's stream rocks.

Ah, tactics: The longer they don't know I'm there, the better. The Victor, overall, is a lousy sniping platform (jump sniping aside) because of the low, wide arms, so I tend to lay low early in the match, using the lasers to pester people who get uppity. I usually try to position myself off the side of the main line where the heavy mechs are. Once the brawl beings, I can swoop in, using the Victor's superior speed and mobility to tear people up. My build isn't a pure brawling build since it has some range, but it is best suited for carving parts of mechs in closer ranges vs. long range sniping.

Edited by oldradagast, 15 December 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[Koniving]

Lately I've begun using an LB-10x + AC/5 combination with streaks to make up for impaired arm-twist. Some medium lasers, rarely used, are also part of the mix. The weapons are very low heat which allows for a lot of constantly hitting endurance. The idea is to be able to outlast other enemies and very effectively tear them apart as they shut down -- which is something they always do.

[zudukai]

flank, smash, confuse, harass, attacking from buildings, the VTR can do it all and is fast enough to take minimal damage, just do not spearhead a charge, only take point when the others are fully engaged (during a charge).

jumpjet often and use them to turn and gain strategic advantages. experiment with more jumpjets.

[Kanatta Jing]

I generally use my Victor to sneak into the enemy back row and stab some snipers to death.