34 replies to this topic

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

I wanted to start a thread of a slightly different nature. Although my view has been discussed it has been buried under piles of rage so I thought creating a separate thread might be interesting. I understand much of the rage but try to be respectful when you share your thoughts; feel free to tell me I'm an ***** if you want but just try to do it nicely. xD

Just to get it out there, I personally am excited about the new clan package and already purchased the highest level (please note I am not planning on buying any of the golds).

I understand the anger and all but honestly is this really surprising? As a game primarily based upon micro transactions you can except that they are going to perpetually have some major up and coming sale that hits every 6 months to a year. These promotions are the major source of income so you can probably always except some "major package" on the horizon.

While I understand that the community is angry at many of the delayed features I think it is a bit silly to link the business model to the delays. You can except that they are always going to have some new up and coming sale but as long as they keep moving towards implementing new features who cares?

So here is my thesis:

If you eventually get your game features why do you care if people like me who work full time fund the game for you by buying these packages? Honestly I do not have time to grind for hours a day and if you are still in school or such isn't it nice that you can still get the same stuff but don't have to pay for it? You can still get everything exactly the same (minus the CBill bonus) and you don't have to pay for anything. Money is still flowing into the developers so you will get your new features so why such anger?

[GalaxyBluestar]

why such anger?

because people have waited too long for stuff said time and time again is coming and it hasn't. only people who've been here 3months or less don't understand.

this game has hardly evolved for a whole year other than mechs a few maps added with the craziest implementation of features and balance which hasn't added much at all to gameplay. {abilities nerfed like gyros and incline abilties being sold back to you through modules doesn't count for anything}

that's why there's so much rage, founders money phoenix money MC's all sorts of forum debates and ideas. NOTHING seems to be building in this game. that's why rage.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I am a bit upset for the following reasons. The price structure is VERY high (compared to Founders or Phoenix), and after about 2 years of playing, I have not seen what I would call acceptable progress in the game. It feels like they want more money and have not provided actual gameplay content (like CW) to back it up. It worries me because it seems like they are struggling bad financially and are resorting to more extreme measures to raise capital, yet still not having the resources to really modify the game like they promise. I am a bit upset, but really more worried than anything. That being said, the mechs do REALLY look nice .

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

GalaxyBluestar, on 15 December 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

why such anger?

because people have waited too long for stuff said time and time again is coming and it hasn't. only people who've been here 3months or less don't understand.

this game has hardly evolved for a whole year other than mechs a few maps added with the craziest implementation of features and balance which hasn't added much at all to gameplay. {abilities nerfed like gyros and incline abilties being sold back to you through modules doesn't count for anything}

that's why there's so much rage, founders money phoenix money MC's all sorts of forum debates and ideas. NOTHING seems to be building in this game. that's why rage.

A very fair point sir but do you think the delays could have fair justification? Their goals are ambitious and I have always been of the thought it is better to release something that functions rather than barely gets buy. I suppose my problem is I have a hard time accepting the view that they are doing nothing but making new mechs (probably not much of a programming challenge and requires a minimum allocation of resources at this point) and are probably bottlenecked on the challenges of implementing what their goals are.

I have no real reason to believe that they will not accomplish their original goals though so who cares if it take a bit longer to get a better product. Why link the business side to the community goals since they are largely separate?

[SerratedBlaze]

I am unhappy with the package for the following reasons instead of the cost per mech.

-I will need to buy many that I don't want to get the one set I do want.
-The packages are available for sale before any product specific information is out.
-Announcing new projects like this create the illusion to the public that this is their new focus instead of projects in progress, ramping up hate. This is why people are hating more on UI2 not being out yet, though really to make these mechs a new ui is required.
-Buying only the products that I presume to want (3 variants of one chassis, none of the misc stuff) will cost significantly more $, and will not be available for purchase for some weeks after the pre-order release.
-People buying blindly is positive reinforcement to IGP and PGI to do this again.

The releasing of mechs to the public for c-bills one at a time has worked, and package OPTIONS are very nice. But being forced to overbuy or not have access to in game content is not favorable.

I do have nice things to say about what they have said about the way clan mechs will work, and i want to hear more about the weapons.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

MeiSooHaityu, on 15 December 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I am a bit upset for the following reasons. The price structure is VERY high (compared to Founders or Phoenix), and after about 2 years of playing, I have not seen what I would call acceptable progress in the game. It feels like they want more money and have not provided actual gameplay content (like CW) to back it up. It worries me because it seems like they are struggling bad financially and are resorting to more extreme measures to raise capital, yet still not having the resources to really modify the game like they promise. I am a bit upset, but really more worried than anything. That being said, the mechs do REALLY look nice .

Your point makes sense but I don't know if this sort of promotion means they are desperate for cash. Since their business model is "free to play" you can except they will always have some new major promotion in the pipe 6 months down the road. Given how well the phoenix pack sold I can't imagine their wallets are hurting.

I understand the frustration at the feature delays (I share them) but to be fair they are very ambitious goals. As long as they keep rolling out new maps and get a couple of new modes out there I am willing to wait a bit while they produce features that are complete rather than just putting out partially finished junk.

What will kill this game is if they release something like CW2 and it is completely broken; so why not give time to get it right?

[Sug]

Blueduck, on 15 December 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

I have no real reason to believe that they will not accomplish their original goals

Give it another year.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

SerratedBlaze, on 15 December 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

I am unhappy with the package for the following reasons instead of the cost per mech.

-I will need to buy many that I don't want to get the one set I do want.
-The packages are available for sale before any product specific information is out.
-Announcing new projects like this create the illusion to the public that this is their new focus instead of projects in progress, ramping up hate. This is why people are hating more on UI2 not being out yet, though really to make these mechs a new ui is required.
-Buying only the products that I presume to want (3 variants of one chassis, none of the misc stuff) will cost significantly more $, and will not be available for purchase for some weeks after the pre-order release.
-People buying blindly is positive reinforcement to IGP and PGI to do this again.

The releasing of mechs to the public for c-bills one at a time has worked, and package OPTIONS are very nice. But being forced to overbuy or not have access to in game content is not favorable.

I do have nice things to say about what they have said about the way clan mechs will work, and i want to hear more about the weapons.

Very fair points. I suppose I am a bit over enthusiastic but my first real PC game was MechWarrior 2 and I love all of those mechs and want them all. No Marauder II-C though.

Sug, on 15 December 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Give it another year.

I have played a lot of StarCraft so I am used to dealing with unbalanced and unfinished interfaces. xD

[GalaxyBluestar]

the only decent mack vid says it all.

the rage

why

Blueduck, on 15 December 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

A very fair point sir but do you think the delays could have fair justification? Their goals are ambitious and I have always been of the thought it is better to release something that functions rather than barely gets buy. I suppose my problem is I have a hard time accepting the view that they are doing nothing but making new mechs (probably not much of a programming challenge and requires a minimum allocation of resources at this point) and are probably bottlenecked on the challenges of implementing what their goals are.

I have no real reason to believe that they will not accomplish their original goals though so who cares if it take a bit longer to get a better product. Why link the business side to the community goals since they are largely separate?

that ambition was destoryed in a fire of the worst PR management ever. they've been stringing the community along on what's supposed to be delivered. CW was supposed to originally start being made 90 days after open beta, time and time again they've been saying it's coming. over 400 days later after the first broken deadline we haven't even got a UI to run it let alone any plans outside of concept, the same concept pitched in 2012. the turrets for bases were pitched in 2012 and we're only seeing test pictures a few weeks ago over a year later.

all patients good will and intergirty are burned to the ground. they either get everything in before the clans are delivered or the game's dead.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 15 December 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

No community warfare, no drop ship mode, no knockdowns, no Ui2.0, no DX11. Phoenix stuff not even fully implemented....and here comes another run for the cash. That's what I am upset about.

[Bishop Steiner]

and another thread derailed. No positive comments can be left untarnished by pure negativity.

And people wonder why the Devs stopped listening to these forums long ago. lol.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

GalaxyBluestar, on 15 December 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

the only decent mack vid says it all.

the rage

why

Honestly I don't think his points are very pertinent. I certainly understand his anger at the lack of features but if they are not diverting substantial resources away from them to develop some new mechs who cares.

If the interfaces and CW2 is delayed and they need time to get it right I don't think you can rage at how they make their money. I personally view this sale and the delays in features as two separate issues; however, I'm used to companies like Nintendo which will delay a game for years in order to release a finished product. I would much rather have something good that is delayed rather than something that is broken.

Sean von Steinike, on 15 December 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

No community warfare, no drop ship mode, no knockdowns, no Ui2.0, no DX11. Phoenix stuff not even fully implemented....and here comes another run for the cash. That's what I am upset about.

Thank you very much for the post but please let me know how you think this relates to the OP. Read the original thesis that there is always going to be some major sale on the horizon; that is how they make there money. Is it really fair to link a delay in features to the business model if they honestly need more time to get it right?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Blueduck, on 15 December 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Your point makes sense but I don't know if this sort of promotion means they are desperate for cash. Since their business model is "free to play" you can except they will always have some new major promotion in the pipe 6 months down the road. Given how well the phoenix pack sold I can't imagine their wallets are hurting.

I understand the frustration at the feature delays (I share them) but to be fair they are very ambitious goals. As long as they keep rolling out new maps and get a couple of new modes out there I am willing to wait a bit while they produce features that are complete rather than just putting out partially finished junk.

What will kill this game is if they release something like CW2 and it is completely broken; so why not give time to get it right?

I know the promotions are needed for a F2P model. My cause for alarm is due more to how bloated the pricing model has become. The Founders and Phoenix packages seemed very reasonable to me value wise, but this Clan pricing is just downright greedy and a bit insulting. just my opinion though. As for the CW, I think the time they had to implement this has been adequate. I do agree that the system must be right, but I really don't feel they have the resources to implement it. I think the delay is less about quality and more about ability. I can wait it out and see how it goes, but I am not spending another dime. Just how I feel.

[Mawai]

MeiSooHaityu, on 15 December 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I am a bit upset for the following reasons. The price structure is VERY high (compared to Founders or Phoenix), and after about 2 years of playing, I have not seen what I would call acceptable progress in the game. It feels like they want more money and have not provided actual gameplay content (like CW) to back it up. It worries me because it seems like they are struggling bad financially and are resorting to more extreme measures to raise capital, yet still not having the resources to really modify the game like they promise. I am a bit upset, but really more worried than anything. That being said, the mechs do REALLY look nice .

Actually, although I don't like the whole clan mech sale either. With the exception of the $500.00 gold plated mechs ... the pricing is in-line with both the founders and phoenix packages. The difference in pricing is due to the release of twice the number of mechs.

At $120 ... you receive 4 prime mechs + 2 variants of each with one in each class of mech (light -> Assault)
At $240 ... you recieve an additional 4 prime mechs + 2 variants of each with one in each class of mech.

Essentially, the clan pack allows you to buy a double founders or double phoenix for twice as much. The main difference is that the included premium time doesn't scale up.

They are charging $30/prime variant with the 30% bonus and include two standard variants with each ... and some extras. This is the same pricing scheme that was used with phoenix and is better than founders since the founders pack did not include the extra variants.

[Bishop Steiner]

Blueduck, on 15 December 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Honestly I don't think his points are very pertinent. I certainly understand his anger at the lack of features but if they are not diverting substantial resources away from them to develop some new mechs who cares.

If the interfaces and CW2 is delayed and they need time to get it right I don't think you can rage at how they make their money. I personally view this sale and the delays in features as two separate issues; however, I'm used to companies like Nintendo which will delay a game for years in order to release a finished product. I would much rather have something good that is delayed rather than something that is broken.



Thank you very much for the post but please let me know how you think this relates to the OP. Read the original thesis that there is always going to be some major sale on the horizon; that is how they make there money. Is it really fair to link a delay in features to the business model if they honestly need more time to get it right?

never let facts, details and reason get in the way of forum rage.

It's like the pedestrian insisting they have the right of way to a city bus. They may be right, but it really doesn't matter, does it?

90% of the forum rage, even the legit stuff, is the whole inability to look at anything but the "right this moment" and understand the where's and hows, even AFTER they have been explained by the Devs.

Between to the already announced, the Phoenix Pack, Sabre pack and now the Clans, they have bought themselves considerable time away from having to devote to the Mech ofg the Month club, specificially to focus on these (maybe people have missed the part where Russ and Company specifically said that the pHOENIX WINDOW WAS TO GET A JUMP ON THE cLANS, cw AND ui2.0. (I really could car eless about Dx11, tbh, it'll be nice, but not groundbreaking. Especially since most people seem to think we will get a magical graphics enhancement with it.). UI2.0 is making progress in the Test Servers, Clan Pack was prepared. Etc.

But hey, how dare they actually add available content whilst working on the other stuff.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

MeiSooHaityu, on 15 December 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

I know the promotions are needed for a F2P model. My cause for alarm is due more to how bloated the pricing model has become. The Founders and Phoenix packages seemed very reasonable to me value wise, but this Clan pricing is just downright greedy and a bit insulting. just my opinion though. As for the CW, I think the time they had to implement this has been adequate. I do agree that the system must be right, but I really don't feel they have the resources to implement it. I think the delay is less about quality and more about ability. I can wait it out and see how it goes, but I am not spending another dime. Just how I feel.

Mawai, on 15 December 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Actually, although I don't like the whole clan mech sale either. With the exception of the $500.00 gold plated mechs ... the pricing is in-line with both the founders and phoenix packages. The difference in pricing is due to the release of twice the number of mechs.

At $120 ... you receive 4 prime mechs + 2 variants of each with one in each class of mech (light -> Assault)
At $240 ... you recieve an additional 4 prime mechs + 2 variants of each with one in each class of mech.

Essentially, the clan pack allows you to buy a double founders or double phoenix for twice as much. The main difference is that the included premium time doesn't scale up.

They are charging $30/prime variant with the 30% bonus and include two standard variants with each ... and some extras. This is the same pricing scheme that was used with phoenix and is better than founders since the founders pack did not include the extra variants.

Very fair points; I suppose I am a bit biased due to my fond memories of MechWarrior 2. I love all those guys so to me the package scaling wasn't a big deal.

I can definitely see how it is unfair to not allow greater customization; especially if you don't have a lot of cash floating around.

Thanks for the point everyone.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

never let facts, details and reason get in the way of forum rage.

It's like the pedestrian insisting they have the right of way to a city bus. They may be right, but it really doesn't matter, does it?

90% of the forum rage, even the legit stuff, is the whole inability to look at anything but the "right this moment" and understand the where's and hows, even AFTER they have been explained by the Devs.

Between to the already announced, the Phoenix Pack, Sabre pack and now the Clans, they have bought themselves considerable time away from having to devote to the Mech ofg the Month club, specificially to focus on these (maybe people have missed the part where Russ and Company specifically said that the pHOENIX WINDOW WAS TO GET A JUMP ON THE cLANS, cw AND ui2.0. (I really could car eless about Dx11, tbh, it'll be nice, but not groundbreaking. Especially since most people seem to think we will get a magical graphics enhancement with it.). UI2.0 is making progress in the Test Servers, Clan Pack was prepared. Etc.

But hey, how dare they actually add available content whilst working on the other stuff.

I agree with you sir as I while I can understand while people are frustrate at the package structures themselves; it is kinda silly to be angry at the continual new packages being brought on while new features are being worked on. Honestly it is the only way they will be able to pay their workers and I don't think it is fair to imagine PGI as some evil entity that is simply plotting to steal money before they go under.

Now, they may go under of course but I don't think it will be because a lack of effort in terms of implementing new features. xD

Edited by Blueduck, 15 December 2013 - 08:24 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

and another thread derailed. No positive comments can be left untarnished by pure negativity.

And people wonder why the Devs stopped listening to these forums long ago. lol.

I don't feel it is intentional trolling against PGI, but people are just so frustrated right now that it is hard to think positively. I am honestly bitter about this whole Clan deal, and I am normally the one to try and be reasonable about PGI's decisions. I am just jaded and burned out. I hope things work out well and the content (like CW) comes with the release of the Clans, but I just am so tired of the delayed promises and rising mech prices. Bishop, we are Founders man, we have been in the game since Closed Beta. The lack of progression and the recent pricing decisions has to get to you a bit when you, like me, have been playing for about 2 years with little change but additional mechs and cosmetic improvements.

[Augustus Martelus II]

I believe that they will release Ui 2.0 before the clan stuff (wich is still far away 17 june 2014) CW....i want something full implement, not something that wouldn't work well.

I m happy to see those clan mechs....really love how they look like

But hope they wont change the tonnage of the weapons like they say or the hardpoints size.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mawai, on 15 December 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Actually, although I don't like the whole clan mech sale either. With the exception of the $500.00 gold plated mechs ... the pricing is in-line with both the founders and phoenix packages. The difference in pricing is due to the release of twice the number of mechs.

At $120 ... you receive 4 prime mechs + 2 variants of each with one in each class of mech (light -> Assault)
At $240 ... you recieve an additional 4 prime mechs + 2 variants of each with one in each class of mech.

Essentially, the clan pack allows you to buy a double founders or double phoenix for twice as much. The main difference is that the included premium time doesn't scale up.

They are charging $30/prime variant with the 30% bonus and include two standard variants with each ... and some extras. This is the same pricing scheme that was used with phoenix and is better than founders since the founders pack did not include the extra variants.

I suppose you are right, but the packaging still forces a far higher investment than I know I want to make. It just seems bully-ish and it just doesn't sit well with me. Doesn't really matter, people will buy into it if they believe in it and the game. I am just too tired to care about this game anymore. My patience and faith is tapped out. Sad too, I really used to be so excited about this game. The MechWarrior drought was so long. Oh well, time to let the new players carry the torch, I am just going to sit back and see how it pans out.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

MeiSooHaityu, on 15 December 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

I don't feel it is intentional trolling against PGI, but people are just so frustrated right now that it is hard to think positively. I am honestly bitter about this whole Clan deal, and I am normally the one to try and be reasonable about PGI's decisions. I am just jaded and burned out. I hope things work out well and the content (like CW) comes with the release of the Clans, but I just am so tired of the delayed promises and rising mech prices. Bishop, we are Founders man, we have been in the game since Closed Beta. The lack of progression and the recent pricing decisions has to get to you a bit when you, like me, have been playing for about 2 years with little change but additional mechs and cosmetic improvements.

Good point but why get frustrated. You can still get the mechs; why let it get to you? Just save up some C-Bills and buy the ones you want.

It looks like we are about to get some major new features and maps with the saber pack so that is a cool thing. I will admit waiting does suck though.