46 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Deathlike, on 18 December 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

In Assault, you can force them to come in many different ways.

If someone wants to be a dink in Assault, they can be a dink. I've been in matches where one guy decides he's going to hide in Tourmaline and force like remaining 3 assault mechs to trudge along to the enemy's base to slowly cap.

Conquest gives you a reason to be a dink, since you can actually win by hiding. I used to do it all the time in Alpine.

Skirmish is fine and I agree with Roland, unless you are PURPOSELY being an ***, you are probably dropping in Skirmish to fight.

And like I said if your goal is to annoy people, you can do that in any match type.

[Roland]

Deathlike, on 18 December 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

The strict difference between MW4 and MWO is the lack of spawn in MWO.

Err.. no.
In the planetary leagues in MW4, we always played Team attrition, no respawn.

Deathlike, on 18 December 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Just remember, you asked for it, and you got what you asked for. Not realizing what the "side issues" were is not the problem of the mode, but the people who asked for it.

You can't always force people to come to you in Skirmish.

In Assault, you can force them to come in many different ways.

Yes, we got exactly what we asked for, and it's great.

It's the game type that formed the foundation for years of competitive play in MW4.
You're right, you can't just force people to come to you. THAT IS GOOD. It means that you actually are forced to continually maneuver and use the terrain, to gain advantage over a dynamic enemy.

[ExplodedZombie]

Pansies who hide to protect their KDR are the lowest of scum. It means they do not *earn* their rating. They grief it and therefore do not deserve it. Uninstall, please. We do not need honor-less water trash.

Perhaps we can mark them as Outlaws.

[HlynkaCG]

ExplodedZombie, on 18 December 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Pansies who hide to protect their KDR are the lowest of scum. It means they do not *earn* their rating. They grief it and therefore do not deserve it. Uninstall, please. We do not need honor-less water trash.

Perhaps we can mark them as Outlaws.

Bitter much?

What does it mean to "earn" one's rating in a an online game, seems to me that if you can't kill them that is your failure not thiers. Who's stats are you really worried about padding here

Edited by HlynkaCG, 18 December 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Fut]

Roland, on 18 December 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

You understand that wasn't actual tactical depth, right?
I mean, you're just illustrating my point... Your perception of depth is a joke compared to what is possible when you aren't tethered to a little red square.

How is it possible for the Base-Cap to reduce tactical depth?
Every tactical-thing you can do in Skirmish Mode, you can do in Assault - so long as you keep in mind that your base can be captured out from under you.

Can you elaborate on your point a bit more?
Thanks.

[Deathlike]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 December 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

If someone wants to be a dink in Assault, they can be a dink. I've been in matches where one guy decides he's going to hide in Tourmaline and force like remaining 3 assault mechs to trudge along to the enemy's base to slowly cap.

Well, you can still cap and end it ASAP. It's not as bad as that sounds unless it's TT or Alpine.

Quote

Conquest gives you a reason to be a dink, since you can actually win by hiding. I used to do it all the time in Alpine.

In new Alpine Conquest, you blob the 3(+1) spots and kill everything. You can certainly hide, but most of the time the loss is by gross mismanagement between killing mechs and not capping.

Quote

Skirmish is fine and I agree with Roland, unless you are PURPOSELY being an ***, you are probably dropping in Skirmish to fight.

And like I said if your goal is to annoy people, you can do that in any match type.

Sure, but I think Skirmish is grossly worse for it due to how the time is a function of how a match is ended. You can speed it up for Conquest+Assault, but Skirmish doesn't stop until everyone is dead (which is already a function of the current mentality).

Roland, on 18 December 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Err.. no.
In the planetary leagues in MW4, we always played Team attrition, no respawn.

I'm not saying there weren't others.

Quote

Yes, we got exactly what we asked for, and it's great.

It's the game type that formed the foundation for years of competitive play in MW4.
You're right, you can't just force people to come to you. THAT IS GOOD. It means that you actually are forced to continually maneuver and use the terrain, to gain advantage over a dynamic enemy.

I understand that, but the crying exists against Assault because people didn't like being capped. Now it's that people are crying that the usually very crit light is hiding because there's no benefit to engaging (outside of the poor damage bonus).

Sodapop, on 18 December 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

You mean respawning? If so, this is not really true, bud. NBT planetary league in MW4, for example, used No Respawn in all their games. Everyone enjoyed there enjoyed it and it was a whole lot of fun.

I didn't participate in one-spawn leagues, and I'm not saying it didn't exist. It was my personal flavor and it is what it was. It's different, and I'll leave it to that.

[Screech]

The solution is if it bothers you that much don't play skirmish mode.

The only thing anyone should be complaining about to PGI is for them to add a selector to the game mode so people can choose all the game types they wish to play instead of only being able to pick one.

[Deathlike]

Screech, on 18 December 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

The only thing anyone should be complaining about to PGI is for them to add a selector to the game mode so people can choose all the game types they wish to play instead of only being able to pick one.

That was suggested a long time ago when Conquest debuted.

I'm sure you know the proper PGI response to this.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Deathlike, on 18 December 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Well, you can still cap and end it ASAP. It's not as bad as that sounds unless it's TT or Alpine.



In new Alpine Conquest, you blob the 3(+1) spots and kill everything. You can certainly hide, but most of the time the loss is by gross mismanagement between killing mechs and not capping.



Sure, but I think Skirmish is grossly worse for it due to how the time is a function of how a match is ended. You can speed it up for Conquest+Assault, but Skirmish doesn't stop until everyone is dead (which is already a function of the current mentality).



I'm not saying there weren't others.



I understand that, but the crying exists against Assault because people didn't like being capped. Now it's that people are crying that the usually very crit light is hiding because there's no benefit to engaging (outside of the poor damage bonus).



I didn't participate in one-spawn leagues, and I'm not saying it didn't exist. It was my personal flavor and it is what it was. It's different, and I'll leave it to that.

I get what you are saying, but I think you are relying on people being a-holes and their team not helping you find them. And even with Conquest/Assault having mechanisms to end it faster, there are still situations where someone can make it painful.

Just don't drop Skirmish if you are worried about the 1 in 10 matches where someone decides to be difficult. It is your perogative.

[MischiefSC]

I've had absolutely no issue with it and I'm a good 20 or 30 matches in Skirmish into it. Three attempts, all ended in failure, one a truly humiliating beat-down for the would-be troll. There's a lot of quality trash-talk going on too.

People did this in Conquest/Assault too, only more often. I've had less trolling in Skirmish than I ever did in Conquest/Assault. I've only had 2 games I would consider 'bad' and it was some clear tactical misjudgements. Almost universally I've enjoyed better coordination, more complex tactical deployment and far grittier combat.

[Screech]

Deathlike, on 18 December 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

I'm sure you know the proper PGI response to this.

Yes, but I will not go quietly into the night. Also, in the off chance they decide to add another game mode, yes you might need to suspend disbelief, they would already have the system set-up to make choices.

[Bagheera]

Skirmish seems on heavy rotation at the moment, and yeah, some tools might run and hide at the end. Honestly though, I only saw it once yesterday.

Trolls will be trolls, any game mode.

[kuangmk11]

Fut, on 18 December 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

How is it possible for the Base-Cap to reduce tactical depth?
Every tactical-thing you can do in Skirmish Mode, you can do in Assault - so long as you keep in mind that your base can be captured out from under you.

Can you elaborate on your point a bit more?
Thanks.

You just said it. The caps are a boat anchor. You always want your team between the other team and your cap. It dictates where the fight happens. You try something different such as entrench in a different part of the map, you get capped. Its too bad the Heat Maps are not being updated any more.

[Rhaythe]

Sky Hawk, on 18 December 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

It seems, not many Player likes, when the last enemy Player Hide/Shut-down, specially when more time remained from the match. Since Skirmish has no 'Cap-End' like the other two Mode, I proposal make this:
...

I've actually done that before in a match. And my team honored it. Was an awesome way to end the match (for the record, I lost the one-on-one fight, and a remaining ally capped afterward).

[Iqfish]

I suggest a Time reduction, if only one mech is left of 20-25%. This is still enough for Players to play tactically and should please the impatient kind just enough.

[dario03]

I would just make a lose count as a death. I'm pretty sure the main reason people hide is to protect their stats (except on conquest and they have the cap in the bag). If a lose counted as a death then it would encourage them to fight since getting a kill in before dieing would help their stats.

[Abivard]

Roland, on 18 December 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

This is really not a problem at all. It doesn't actually happen.

There is far less "hunt down the last light mech" in skirmish mode than there is in Conquest, since there isn't actually any incentive for the light mech to hide in Skirmish mode.

There is no crime or hunger either, there is no incentive for anyone to deprive people of food by criminal actions in this world.

[MischiefSC]

I'd love to see 10 screen-caps of a Skirmish match that timed out with 1 mech on one side and 4+ on the other. I've heard some anecdotal evidence but never seen it. If it's such a dread event and a source of constant trolling let's see some picks. Maybe I'm just a statistical anomaly but I've never once seen it in two days of dropping only Skirmish, 30+ drops.

[Asmudius Heng]

Roland, on 18 December 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

This is really not a problem at all. It doesn't actually happen.

There is far less "hunt down the last light mech" in skirmish mode than there is in Conquest, since there isn't actually any incentive for the light mech to hide in Skirmish mode.

Exactly, it's actually quite interesting to be that smaller mech playing hide and seek trying to hit and run and take down as many as you can before you die.

Being in opposition trying to hunt them down without being taken down by their Wiley ways is also quite thrilling.

The only reason to hide and not fight at all is if you are a total ****** who wants to be annoying. There is no point in doing it.

Conquest is worse because if they are ahead on caps they'll just hide and ride out the end of game

[Prezimonto]

I wouldn't mind if there was a retreat option... where you walk off the map.

Skirmishes should be short and the obvious losers SHOULD be able to escape at least some of the time.