25 replies to this topic

[Xeven]

Id start by decreasing the duration. The damage spreads to far in motion. May need to run a bit cooler or less ghost heat effect when running a few of them. They just not worth taking more than one and 100 ton assault should be able to take a few along and not overheat so often.

Just opinion of course.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pulse lasers were 18% more accurate that standard lasers... I always wondered how they were going to get that to transfer. All I see is a weapon that weighs more, is hotter, has lots less range and misses just as often as Standard lasers

[EvilCow]

The effective advantage of pulse lasers compared to normal laser can be calculated using your personal weapon stats:

Effective Damage = Total Damage / Fired

Using large laser as example, in my case:

Large Lasers: 161,087 / 39,035 = 4.12
Large Pulse Lasers: 29,988 / 6,342 = 4.72

Considering that the base damages are 9 and 10.6:

Large Lasers: 4.12 / 9 = 0.457
Large Pulse Lasers: 4.72 / 10.6 = 0,445

it is evident that the shorter pulse duration does not make a significant difference as long applied damage is concerned.

Considering:
- Higher Weight.
- Shorter Range.
- Equivalent heat per damage.

We get that Pulse Lasers are a case of bad design, they fail to deliver the advantage they are supposed to have: precision. I imagine the same data is available to PGI, this makes hard for me to understand their reluctance to act.

I'd recommend to give them as significantly shorter beam duration, 0.15/0.20/0.3 for example, and give them a slightly higher heat efficiency.

[Christof Romulus]

Math with shots FIRED
LRG PULSE LASER 6067/969 = 6.261 / 10.6 = .5906
LARGE LASER 13826/2847 = 4.856 / 9 = .5395

Math with shots HIT
LRG PULSE LASER 6067/824 = 7.362 / 10.6 = .6945
LARGE LASER 13826/2417 = 5.720 / 9 = .6355

Not 100% sure what I'm calculating here, but it looks to me that the Large Pulse Laser is producing a greater effect for me than it is for you. Perhaps you should consider firing it when either within 300m or close to 300m as the damage drop off is severe.

[Bagheera]

Sadly, it'll never happen. Someone in authority hates the large pulse laser, and therefore all pulse lasers must be inferior forever.

It's like the Smoking Man from X-Files and the Buffalo Bills.

[EvilCow]

Christof Romulus, on 04 January 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Math with shots FIRED
LRG PULSE LASER 6067/969 = 6.261 / 10.6 = .5906
LARGE LASER 13826/2847 = 4.856 / 9 = .5395

Math with shots HIT
LRG PULSE LASER 6067/824 = 7.362 / 10.6 = .6945
LARGE LASER 13826/2417 = 5.720 / 9 = .6355

Not 100% sure what I'm calculating here, but it looks to me that the Large Pulse Laser is producing a greater effect for me than it is for you. Perhaps you should consider firing it when either within 300m or close to 300m as the damage drop off is severe.

I calculated effectiveness using my personal stats, everybody uses weapons a bit differently, I tend to spam lasers also at distance in order to scare or distract.

Even if pulse lasers are working slightly better than normal lasers in your case the difference still does not compensate for all the other disadvantages I mentioned, basically this confirms that the weapon fails to deliver.

BTW, good point using the shots that actually hit the target however the relative effectiveness does not change.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Pulse lasers don't need a tweak, they need a complete overhaul.

There is no reason why they should have the same exact fire mechanic as standard beam lasers. They should be so different that they are rightfully an entire new class of laser weaponry.

Example, instead of a burn time like standard lasers, have it so every time you pull the trigger, they fire a low damage direct damage beam, and can be fire continually several times in a row (lets say 4).

That way, a Large Pulse Laser can fire 4 direct damage beams dealing 2.5 damage a pop for ~2 heat. Scale down these numbers for the smaller versions. Also, increase their range to match standard beams. Each trigger pull takes 1/4 of the "weapon recycle bar" away and refills continuously.


I should get some images to show in details. But basically the idea is to make Pulse Lasers a unique weapon system that matches Canon description of being a "Laser Machine Gun".

[EvilCow]

I wish they would consider a complete redesign, apparently it is already hard enough to change a couple numbers into an XML and see how it goes for a couple weeks....

[Mcgral18]

EvilCow, on 04 January 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

see how it goes for a couple weeks....

Well, it's been months in the past.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Alternatively they could give them hitscan pulses of damage, say 2 for the small, 3 for the medium and 4 for the large. Duration of the group could be adjusted with the small being fastest and the large slowest. That would certainly make them different and possibly useful, especially against fast movers and when brawling. Heat should be tweaked so that they are used.

[Praehotec8]

mwhighlander, on 04 January 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Pulse lasers don't need a tweak, they need a complete overhaul.

There is no reason why they should have the same exact fire mechanic as standard beam lasers. They should be so different that they are rightfully an entire new class of laser weaponry.

Example, instead of a burn time like standard lasers, have it so every time you pull the trigger, they fire a low damage direct damage beam, and can be fire continually several times in a row (lets say 4).

That way, a Large Pulse Laser can fire 4 direct damage beams dealing 2.5 damage a pop for ~2 heat. Scale down these numbers for the smaller versions. Also, increase their range to match standard beams. Each trigger pull takes 1/4 of the "weapon recycle bar" away and refills continuously.


I should get some images to show in details. But basically the idea is to make Pulse Lasers a unique weapon system that matches Canon description of being a "Laser Machine Gun".

It sounds like basically what you're saying is you want a laser AC2. What you're proposing would make pulse lasers have effectively longer burn times than regular lasers to get similar damage, albeit with a mechanism for the user to discontinue the beam at any time.

It might be viable, in the same way AC2s are, but I actually rather like the pulse lasers we have now. In fact, I would argue for pulse lasers to deal 4-5 pulses nearly instantly, more like current larger caliber AC rounds. Pulse lasers were supposed to increase accuracy, and this would fit better, I think.

Pulse lasers actually can be effective in a brawl, as they deal damage quickly and allow one to torso twist faster than normal lasers. Right now, the biggest problem with pulse lasers is that they are too hot for what you get, especially given that they weigh significantly more than their standard counterparts. This makes them even hotter, as one cannot load as many heat sinks as a result of the increased weight. I would argue to make their heat the same as, or even slightly lower than the standard lasers (again, since you can carry less HS with pulses) while keeping the other statistics about the same.

[Profiteer]

I think a complete overhaul is unrealistic.


Lrg and Med need the pulse duration reduced from .6 to .5 seconds.
Sml to .4 seconds.

All could have a modest boost to damage, or a reduction in heat, to offset high weight and low range.

[Varent]

Xeven, on 04 January 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Id start by decreasing the duration. The damage spreads to far in motion. May need to run a bit cooler or less ghost heat effect when running a few of them. They just not worth taking more than one and 100 ton assault should be able to take a few along and not overheat so often.

Just opinion of course.

Lower the ghost heat negative to more then three. I think three firing at the same time should be worthwhile. Also lower the bear duration. Make them a good brawling weapon again.

[Noesis]

This thread makes my heart pulse.

+1 for love for lasers

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 04 January 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Well, it's been months in the past.

Months? Try half a year.

http://mwomercs.com/...te-june-112013/

Hello, my name is not Paul Inouye and I will try balancing Pulse Lasers to the best of my ability.

[Craig Steele]

If we are going to do comparisons to the TT game, we need to remember that one dice roll was determining accuracy & dmg, not just accuracy. Time was a pre determined factor in TT (ie, if you hit in TT you always unlocked max damage potential). A +2 "to hit" was also an increase in dmg over time.

In MWO, the two factors are separated.

I kinda like the Pulse's the way they are. A good shot can get more damage over time out of them (theoritcally) and it is a different weapon to the standard laser. IS Large pulse were in efficient in TT too and they had lots of haters. Clan LPL on the other hand .........

[Trauglodyte]

Well, they can do a few things:

• Turn the Pulse Laser into the energy version of the MG
  
• Turn the Pulse Laser into the energy version of the AC2 (have it fire two pulses every 0.1s every 0.5s)
  
• Drop the beam duration to 0.5s, extend the cool down so that it has the same HPS as the normal laser equiv, and give it a crit bonus like MGs, LBs, etc.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 04 January 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Allen Ward]

Actually the normal lasers are a bad design as never in BT did they have a 1 second time frame to deliver their damage potential. Pulse lasers are effectively several lasers firing in very short sequence, it's like carrying around two lasers in one weapon. Problems rarely go away when adding new weird solutions to an already flawed concept...

[verybad]

Bagheera, on 04 January 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Sadly, it'll never happen. Someone in authority hates the large pulse laser, and therefore all pulse lasers must be inferior forever.

It's like the Smoking Man from X-Files and the Buffalo Bills.

I don't think they hate it. I think the programmers are worried they'll be fired if they fix everything.

Quote

"OK everything is working, we don't need you guys any longer!"

Edited by verybad, 04 January 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Every weapon in BT had a time frame to deliver it's damage potential, the length of a turn. Quick firing MG's got one roll in a turn, so did heavy calibre AC 20's.

Time was pre determined in BT, not so in MWO. A pilots ability to hold a lock can now be a factor in damage output, which the TT could never re produce. TT did use pilot skills to influence (+1 gunnery etc) , but depending on your point of view every weapon was either DoT or front loaded.