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Battletech/mechwarrior Leaders That Needed To Be Assassinated


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#21 Vanguard319

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

View PostCyclonerM, on 23 December 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

His reign? He lost it, because he is Victor Davion!
His woman? He lost her, because he is Victor Davion!
His mother? He lost her, because he is Victor Davion!

What an unlucky man, guys..

Well, he did find happiness with Isis Marik in the end, though that also meant he was fighting his own father in law during the jihad....

I wouldn't call Victor a munchkin, (he has plenty of character flaws) but he most definitely is a cosmic plaything.

#22 CyclonerM

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:24 PM

View PostVanguard319, on 23 December 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Well, he did find happiness with Isis Marik in the end, though that also meant he was fighting his own father in law during the jihad....

I wouldn't call Victor a munchkin, (he has plenty of character flaws) but he most definitely is a cosmic plaything.


I admit that i know pretty much anything after the Second Whitting Conference (and the reoccupation of the St.Ives Compact) to the Dark Age (i only read of his brief apparition in a novel.. then stopped reading and switched to the Classic Battletech ones).

#23 CyclonerM

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 03:33 AM

How could a woman who ordered the murder of her mother be better than anyone?

Anf the Victor has been introduced in 2508.. :unsure:

#24 Grey Black

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 04:37 AM

Can I just pick "all of them except Morgan Kell?" Because that's my list.

#25 Strum Wealh

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 05:04 AM

The one assassination that needed to happen, above all others, would have been offing Stefan Amaris roundabout 2740... :unsure:

#26 Graywar

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:02 AM

View Postwaltonpopz, on 23 December 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

2. Katrina Steiner- Real piece of work- killed her own mother and is a class a manipulator of everyone around her.

That's not Katrina Steiner. That's Katherine Steiner-Davion, don't you dare to call her Katrina Steiner. Katrina was her grandmother, a great and very popular ruler.

#27 Lord Letto

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 19 December 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Assassination is dishonorable and a sign of cowardice.

I would rather meet them in the field of honor!

..But if i was not a Clanner this would be my blacklist.

Vlad Ward
Katrina Steiner
Sun-Tzu Liao
Primus Myndo W.. Oh wait. Too late. Thank you Anastasius Focht.
Marthe pryde.
Falconer Commander Ter Roshak. Too late for him too, he died in a solhama unit.

From what I Know From MW4:Mercs, If You side with the Davions, you take out Katrina Steiner at the end of the final mission, and in one of the missions that deal with the clans, you Have a Encounter with a Star commander or something called Roshak and take him out.When it comes to Lore Though, I'm Not Sure, They could have survived after MW4:Mercs or maybe the simple facts that MW4:Mercs Might not be Canon could have something to do with it also.

#28 Skylarr

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 09:18 AM

View PostMarack Drock, on 25 December 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

No MW game except MW3 is canon. As far as we know in lore MW1 never happened, MW2 (and all others in that series) are not canon but are related, MW3 is because a book was published on it and announced as official canon, MW4 series isn't canon (But Ian Dresari did exist, and the canon story is that he let his siter die). Mech Assault never happened in lore and this game will not be canon (mainly due to community warfare and our slow belated timeline which is set at 3050 which means the Clans should have been here last year in august in 3049). MW3 is only canon because of the book (although the characters in the game are not real to my knowledge).



Quote

Canon

Whatever we establish for research material for the authors is canon.
Currently, that list includes: GENERAL INCLUSIVE NOTE: There are a few select instances where a story or article appearing even in these sources may be considered non-canon, but generally this is because the material was in error [...], or it was specifically published as a gag [...].
The list does not include: GENERAL NON-INCLUSIVE NOTE: Despite their non-canonical status, we have not gone into total denial about these sources either, but have simply opted to pick and choose what elements there are "canon" and what are not.


#29 Vanguard319

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:05 PM

View PostGrey Black, on 25 December 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

Can I just pick "all of them except Morgan Kell?" Because that's my list.

Dude, no one can kill Morgan Kell, the powers of the Phantom mech are his and his alone.

Edited by Vanguard319, 25 December 2013 - 02:08 PM.


#30 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostVanguard319, on 25 December 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Dude, no one can kill Morgan Kell, the powers of the Phanton mech are his and his alone.


Well NOW they are. :)

#31 ChapeL

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:52 PM

Vandervahn Chistu
Elias Crichell
Katerine Steiner-Davion
Kali Liao
Romano Liao

#32 Vanguard319

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostMarack Drock, on 25 December 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

woops I forgot that it was the other way around with Victor silly me. As for Katherine, she had a spine. Victor was a spineless *****. I know she killed her mom (not directly the assassin was the Dancing Joker) and she is -parden my french- a *****, but she would have kept the commonwealth together. Victor didn't have the brains to keep the commonwealth in tact even if he tried. Katherine had the Cunning and intelligence to do so. Not to mention if Victor had just given her the thrown instead of acting like a competent leader (which he was not and never woudl be) then his mother wouldn't have been killed and civil war wouldn't have started (unless Davion loyalists decided to declare war). When you see how much more influence Katherine had instead of Victor is was amazing. Federated Suns was filled with her supporters, and 3/4 of all the Lyran Commonwealth was too. Victor only managed to regain power because he had enough relatives and support from Mercenaries to help him.

"Katrina" was a despot, plain and simple. She literally manipulated and murdered her way to power, and had no qualms about killing people for petty reasons. (Arranging for Omi Kurita to be killed just because Victor thrice denied her the first lord's throne was extremely petty.) Her rule was also illegal under Commonwealth law (to become the first prince, the candidate must have no less than five years of military service, and she had none.) The only way she was able to hold power in the Lyran half of the commonwealth was because she had surrounded herself with sycophants and social generals. Most of the intelligent Lyran commanders either sided with Victor in the civil war, realizing that she was fighting to hold power for herself, not to protect her people, or like Adam Steiner declared their neutrality and pulled their troops out of the war altogether.

Victor certainly has flaws, but he always had the best interests of the whole Federated Commonwealth in mind. He had returned from the Clan Homeworlds to find his sister had usurped his throne. As the commanding General of the SLDF, he could have chosen to declare war and reclaim his throne then and there, he did not however because he had just returned from some brutal battles in the clan homeworlds and was tired of war. He was also aware of how brutal civil war could be, and how much the people would suffer as a consequence. A good leader is one who is selfless and willing to place his people's needs before his own. Victor knew his sister was selfish, and considered the people a means to an end to gaining more power for herself. While he started out poorly in terms of political savvy, he got wiser in that regard, and he successfully thwarted Katherine's ambitions for the title of First Lord no less than three times by using her own tricks against her. He actively tried to avoid going down the path of war until Katherine killed their youngest brother Arthur. (who may or may not have survived and become a certain Exarch btw) Even after he won the fedcom Civil war, Victor shocked everyone by publicly abdicating his throne, and leaving both halves in the care of his surviving siblings.

Of the two, Victor is clearly the better person, the one who understood the obligations of the ruler of a nation, despite being flawed and the fluff suggests that he may have become a good Archon-Prince after learning from his early mistakes. Katherine never understood the consequences of power, and like most dictators, she was prepared to let the Commonwealth burn down around her in order to keep it.

#33 CyclonerM

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostMarack Drock, on 25 December 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

woops I forgot that it was the other way around with Victor silly me. As for Katherine, she had a spine. Victor was a spineless *****. I know she killed her mom (not directly the assassin was the Dancing Joker) and she is -parden my french- a *****, but she would have kept the commonwealth together. Victor didn't have the brains to keep the commonwealth in tact even if he tried. Katherine had the Cunning and intelligence to do so. Not to mention if Victor had just given her the thrown instead of acting like a competent leader (which he was not and never woudl be) then his mother wouldn't have been killed and civil war wouldn't have started (unless Davion loyalists decided to declare war). When you see how much more influence Katherine had instead of Victor is was amazing. Federated Suns was filled with her supporters, and 3/4 of all the Lyran Commonwealth was too. Victor only managed to regain power because he had enough relatives and support from Mercenaries to help him.


Well, maybe if Katherine had not tried to take Victor's throne ..
And if he had not to think about the Clan invasion.. You know, save the Inner Sphere and that kind of stuff.. :)

#34 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:36 PM

View PostVanguard319, on 25 December 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Fed-Com civil war "fun" stuff


Very well put, thank you.

#35 Graywar

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 05:45 PM

View PostLord Letto, on 25 December 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

From what I Know From MW4:Mercs, If You side with the Davions, you take out Katrina Steiner at the end of the final mission, and in one of the missions that deal with the clans, you Have a Encounter with a Star commander or something called Roshak and take him out.When it comes to Lore Though, I'm Not Sure, They could have survived after MW4:Mercs or maybe the simple facts that MW4:Mercs Might not be Canon could have something to do with it also.

No you don't. If you side with the Davions you take out Nondi Steiner (the commander of the Steiner forces) at the end. Katherine doesn't appear in the game at all (she also wouldn't even know how to pilot a mech since she never did any kind of military service).
The Roshak guy you're talking about is Jeffer Roshak, who is a completely different person than Ter Roshak. Ter Roshak died long before the FedCom Civil War even started.

View PostVanguard319, on 25 December 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

stuff

Well said, my friend. I'm tired of all those "it's all Victor's fault" posts, because it's just not true.

Katherine is a power hungry b itch, she would do ANYTHING for power. I think that would have triggered a war anyway sooner or later.

#36 CyclonerM

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:27 AM

Hanse Davion a good leader? I think he sparked two wars for his own hunger of power.. :)

#37 LoPanShui

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:00 PM

Katherine Steiner is the greatest leader the Inner Sphere has ever known because she has the deepest blue eyes and the shiniest golden hair and Victor is some short troll man with too much arm hair. FACT!

That said, I'm pretty sure assassinating Alexandr Kerensky after the Exodus would have saved everyone a lot of grief. That's what happens when you let a senile old military man try to rule a government. "Hey, let's umm... Let's split everything into uhh... Into different groups and umm... And have a lot of wars all the time, but nice wars where nobody gets hurt and uhh... Kids should be, you know... Engineered better, for like... Soldiering... And everyone can be named after these cools animals we found, and like uhh... Like, nobody gets a last name until they've like... Kicked the {Scrap} out of all of their relatives!"

#38 Strum Wealh

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostLoPanShui, on 26 December 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Katherine Steiner is the greatest leader the Inner Sphere has ever known because she has the deepest blue eyes and the shiniest golden hair and Victor is some short troll man with too much arm hair. FACT!

That said, I'm pretty sure assassinating Alexandr Kerensky after the Exodus would have saved everyone a lot of grief. That's what happens when you let a senile old military man try to rule a government. "Hey, let's umm... Let's split everything into uhh... Into different groups and umm... And have a lot of wars all the time, but nice wars where nobody gets hurt and uhh... Kids should be, you know... Engineered better, for like... Soldiering... And everyone can be named after these cools animals we found, and like uhh... Like, nobody gets a last name until they've like... Kicked the {Scrap} out of all of their relatives!"

Aleksandr himself was actually a passable leader, all things considered; it was his son Nicholas that started up the whole "let's do a caste-based neo-barbarian tribal society" thing.

And I maintain that taking out Amaris before he could even get close to the Camerons would have prevented far more grief than just about every other conceivable option. :rolleyes:

#39 CyclonerM

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 26 December 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Aleksandr himself was actually a passable leader, all things considered; it was his son Nicholas that started up the whole "let's do a caste-based neo-barbarian tribal society" thing.

And I maintain that taking out Amaris before he could even get close to the Camerons would have prevented far more grief than just about every other conceivable option. :P

Though i feel i owe most of my loyalty to Alexandr Kerensky's ideals - a man, after all, who led hundred of thousand in exile into space - i must say Nicholas had to do it. After the Star League-in-exile had won the hostile planets they settled the old national ties rose again and sparked the Civil War. To ensure that such an olocaust would never happen again he had to radically modify the society. The people, who were tired of war, willingly accepted these changes.

Humans naturally tend to fight wars. Instead of banning it, he decided to minimize its effects ritualizing it.

#40 LoPanShui

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 05:51 PM

View PostCyclonerM, on 26 December 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

Though i feel i owe most of my loyalty to Alexandr Kerensky's ideals - a man, after all, who led hundred of thousand in exile into space - i must say Nicholas had to do it. After the Star League-in-exile had won the hostile planets they settled the old national ties rose again and sparked the Civil War. To ensure that such an olocaust would never happen again he had to radically modify the society. The people, who were tired of war, willingly accepted these changes.

Humans naturally tend to fight wars. Instead of banning it, he decided to minimize its effects ritualizing it.


Nicholas Kerensky:
"Nationalistic ties leading to war are bad bad bad! So let's give everyone loyalty to an animal and play by the rules, guys, c'mon. C'mon. C'mon. More factions can't lead to more wars, c'mon. And if we, you know, if we have like, animals instead of, you know, like, governments then, c'mon. C'mon guys. C'mon. And like, you know, c'mon, we'll have like, rules, really rules, ok? Like, c'mon. Like, if you hate someone you have to, you know, only like, c'mon, hit him with like, two fingers instead of your whole fist, c'mon."

BANG!

And the universe is safe from CRAZY.





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