15 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Hi,

I think everyone knows that MWO needs a metagame. It needs to offer reasons to play beyond the visceral blowing up opposing mechs.

However, up until now I have generally had a good enough time just playing ... but it isn't enough any more because I, and possibly many like me, are getting BORED.

I have 35 mechs. I purchased founders, overlord, one hero mech and the rest with Cbills. I've mastered 4 lights, 4 mediums, 7 heavies and 3 assaults. All the rest have a ways to go ... I've been working on Shadowhawks a bit.

But this is the problem, I've hit the barrier. I have my favorite mechs, Jenner-7D,K, JM6-S, CPLT-J, CPLT-C1 and a selection of others to play when I want. However, I want to play the mechs I like, which I find fun to play ... but there is no reason to do so except the same fights on the same maps (skirmish didn't change much except details and the new maps don't add much either).

I could always go out and level up more mechs ... but the XP system itself is unrewarding and offers little incentive to motivate someone to play.

I realize that the devs have announced an upcoming plan that may address some of these issues. My concern is that the plan may be too little, too late. The point of this post is to strongly encourage PGI to meet the development targets and to prioritize the development of features intentionally designed to keep people playing the game since this should direcly translate into revenue. If this means hiring a dozen programmers on 6 month emergency development contracts to get this done then so be it. Divide up the feature set into manageable chunks and contract out the work if you can't get it done in house.

The customers that PGI are losing because they did not prioritize this already are probably the whales ... the ones who like the franchise a lot and have no qualms about spending some (or a lot of) money on it. These are not the people they should want to lose.

So what metagame areas really need to be addressed in my opinion to retain players? (Please add any other ideas to the thread ...)

1) Completely revamp the mech experience system
- create a significant variety of mech efficiencies
- allow players to choose only a subset of these efficiencies
- allow the chosen efficiencies to be different for every mech variant
- include efficiencies that will improve the mechs ability to function in specific roles.
- they can roll all of this into the planned player level system but player "levels" as implemented in other MMORPG's really don't make any sense for driving mechs ... enhanced skill with individual mechs from experience driving those mechs makes more sense to me ... but the details of what PGI plans for levels in MWO have not been published as far as I know

2) As part of a new experience system ... Implement an experience sink
- players master a mech chassis because they enjoy playing it ... however, after it is mastered the mech accumulates experience that can not be spent at present except to convert to GXP using MC.
- as a result there are mechs out there with a lot of excess experience since people keep playing what they like to play ... but there is little reason beyond dropping into "yet another match"
- to increase the retention of solo players - PGI needs an interesting set of expensive master efficiencies or something similar that is open ended ... allowing players to continue to spend experience on a mech for smaller and smaller incremental improvements.

3) Implement lobbies and the ability for players to create private matches
- although this won't help me much at the moment since I play PUG matches almost exclusively ... this will help any players that enjoy the role playing aspects or competitive aspects.
- Player organized tournaments or competitions between merc units, houses, or whatever become possible and this will keep some people interested and playing ... it might even attract new players
- people could have stock tournaments, energy weapons only tournaments, light mechs only ... the possibilities are pretty much limitless with the right tools.

4) Consider implementing optional leaderboards
- personally, I probably would not participate ... but some folks are strongly motivated to play by the idea of competition. Enough granularity in leaderboards ... i.e. under 1000 games, 1000-2000 games, unlimited, light, medium, heavy, assault, overall ... even specific mechs and variants ... make up as many categories as possible so that more folks can be motivated. One leaderboard showing 10 or even 100 top positions ... will only motivate one tier of players ... however, having leaderboards for many levels and styles of play may encourage more people to keep playing ... especially playing the mechs they enjoy playing.
- since the boards are optional, if folks dont want to participate they wont be affected

5) Community warfare
- although the date of Fall, 2014 has been stated as conservative ... I consider it optimistic ... especially given the scope of features that could be included in community warfare and the range of features that has been mentioned in this context.
- Ideally, they will be able to implement the ability for groups to drop and fight for factions ... the success or failure of the drops will affect the overall balance of faction holdings in an external metagame.
- this feature will motivate folks who are interested in the lore and those who really want a greater significance to the win/loss in each individual match.
- however, the amount of work required for this feature compared to the three described above is probably 10x more ... and how many more players will it retain?


In my opinion, they need to focus on creating a meaningful, interesting and open ended xp system for solo players. They need to create lobbies for self-organizing community groups. They need a wide range of leaderboards for competitive players and ultimately they need a true external metagame through community warfare. However, the first three items should require a small fraction of the development effort required for a proper community warfare implementation ... and the first three features should, in my opinion, be implemented as soon as possible ... even hiring or allocating additional resources or pushing back other less significant features.

[Sandpit]

Sincerely doubt anyone will argue with your sentiment and most of us who have been here since cb have said the exact same thing since cb unfortunately

[Bytemeister]

Interesting comments on the state of the game's (non)existing metagame. I like the leader board idea and the lobbies, being able to communicate and create a game plan is essential, and I'm sure it would bring out the major metagame in the mechlab. Ninety percent of light mechs I see try to pack just as much speed and firepower as their heavier counterparts because they simply cannot get reliable teamwork to implement the "information warfare" that the dev's always say they are going for. On this other hand, I disagree with your ideas on efficiencies, I think that skills in a game are best reflected by familiarity with the game engine and one's own mech. I'd rather know from experience that I can get one more shot off with my AC20 before I overheat, than have a gimmick that makes my mech cool off faster. Lame. Ditch that {Scrap}. You want to be a Battlemech pilot, not some dork playing LoL with robots. Making specific efficiencies for different weight classes would detract from the flexibility of the game by forcing lights to be scouts and heavies to be tanks, I for one would miss AC20 ravens just a little bit.

[Hexenhammer]

I was going to add something but...

Edited by Hexenhammer, 29 December 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Bytemeister, on 29 December 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

On this other hand, I disagree with your ideas on efficiencies, I think that skills in a game are best reflected by familiarity with the game engine and one's own mech. I'd rather know from experience that I can get one more shot off with my AC20 before I overheat, than have a gimmick that makes my mech cool off faster. Lame. Ditch that {Scrap}. You want to be a Battlemech pilot, not some dork playing LoL with robots. Making specific efficiencies for different weight classes would detract from the flexibility of the game by forcing lights to be scouts and heavies to be tanks, I for one would miss AC20 ravens just a little bit.

I both agree and disagree... I think efficiencies need to be made because your pilot learns to do things with their 'Mech to help themselves along... it's called becoming elite, and there's not one thing you would be able to do about those without the efficiencies, period.

On the other hand, I think PGI is going in the wrong direction with efficiencies. These should be on a 'Mech-by-'Mech basis for the 'Mech efficiencies, as to what can be done to improve the "efficiency" of the 'Mech, again things YOU cannot do without the mechanic being available. Efficiencies need to be focused in both the Pilot and 'Mech trees, but it should cost one hell of a lot of experience to get any of them. Now, you get the Pilot efficiencies in the form of modules, which are expensive in GXP, and amazingly horribly expensive for the modules themselves.

With the changes that have been made from tabletop which, for the most part, I do NOT disagree with, you have to have counters to those, hence the modules. For example, I'm an LRM boat driver, I loves my LRMs, but it's no good when I have the level two Target Decay module, and my targets are still disappearing almost the same moment they come up; either the module is broken, or the way the module interacts with the combat is bad, one of the two. Anyway, the fact of the matter is, when I was targeting 'Mechs from a distance without the module, I would launch some missiles and then end up losing LOS and the contact would break, and I would hit NOTHING. That's not tabletop, that's something unique, and I think accurate, to the spirit of BattleTech, so the modules are needed to represent the experience I've gained in being able to target 'Mechs and still be able to get my missiles on target.

However, that's also what I mean by a targeted module... the 360 Target Retention, the Accelerated Lock-On, my Target Decay modules, are all necessary to represent experience I've earned in being able to use my 'Mech better, without my ability to be able to improve ANYTHING in the game by just willing it. However, when it comes to things like adding range, heat, or damage for weapons modules, that's a load of {Scrap}. Those modules do not represent better skill, especially not at 6,000,000 C-Bills a pop -stupid high cost, shouldn't be more than 100,000 C-Bills for any one module-, but rather represent luxuries, even if they're tiny little adjustments.

So, yeah, MOST modules will turn out, I'm afraid, to be unnecessary, and perhaps even game breaking, and PGI should ONLY include modules that actually, fairly, represent better experience where, without the module, no positive effect would be had.

[zolop]

It took them many months to add skirmish mode, aka team deathmatch. I am holding my wallet and breath until CW is out. PGI has not listened to the constructive criticism of the game, from the community or the press, even after its release with many reviews summerizing the game gets boring really fast because of limited gamemodes as an example. It would've been better NOT to work on clan until CW is done with UI 2.0 . In this regard I hope I am wrong and they can really create something great with UI 2.0 and CW.

Here is a reference article... http://www.ign.com/a...r-online-review

[Novakaine]

That's the part that's making me go all ape snit they will be working fast and furious on the Clanker mechs.
With little thought or effort being put into community warfare.
Yup here we go for another year of meta delays.
Sad.

[Imperius]

I just want them to put in a single player game that unlocks something per mech (like a module). Giving you a reason to beat the single player over and over again. Then add expansions and so fourth. Of course after community warfare.

[Sandpit]

Novakaine, on 01 January 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

That's the part that's making me go all ape snit they will be working fast and furious on the Clanker mechs.
With little thought or effort being put into community warfare.
Yup here we go for another year of meta delays.
Sad.

As cynical as I am when it comes to pgi at the moment, I doubt this.
I'm willing to bet that clan mechs are all but done. I think given the recent backlash they really do understand that the sales of the clan packages would be doing even better than currently if they hadn't screwed the pooch on cw
I'm hoping enough of us are saying no more money until we get more game and no more of this whole sidestep when it comes to bs like "well mr. Interviewer you see, it's like this. CW has come to mean many things to many people"
No it hasn't pgi. It means the same thing it did 2 years ago when you touted it as one of the most important features. It means faction warfare for planetary and resource control. That's it. Plain and simple

[Mr Blonde]

Sandpit, on 01 January 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

As cynical as I am when it comes to pgi at the moment, I doubt this.
I'm willing to bet that clan mechs are all but done. I think given the recent backlash they really do understand that the sales of the clan packages would be doing even better than currently if they hadn't screwed the pooch on cw
I'm hoping enough of us are saying no more money until we get more game and no more of this whole sidestep when it comes to bs like "well mr. Interviewer you see, it's like this. CW has come to mean many things to many people"
No it hasn't pgi. It means the same thing it did 2 years ago when you touted it as one of the most important features. It means faction warfare for planetary and resource control. That's it. Plain and simple

How hard can it really be to get CW implemented? It seems to be easy enough for other games. WoT has one, and that game is not nearly as good as MWO when it comes to gameplay. I mean all this time that was spent on other things...3PV, Clan Mechs, etc. I mean I look forward to Clan mechs, but only because I wanted to play in a Clan faction and invade the IS, not just add Clan mechs to random deathmatches. That's worse than useless.

3PV was an utter waste of resources and a debasement of the original intent of the game. I rarely see anyone use it anyway, as it is apparently worthless in combat compared to the cockpit (or "hardcore") view. I can't say firsthand as I haven't lowered myself to using it. Mind you I use 3PV in other games and have no problem with it, but this was supposed to be different. But, I digress.

I'm no programmer, but it seems to me that much more complex things were designed and implemented in much less time. We're approaching "healthcare.gov"-like silliness here. Just focus everyone on it and it will get done. We love new mechs but this is more important, and that has been true for 2+ years now. I would rather have CW in place and 12 mechs to choose from.

Edited by Mr Blonde, 01 January 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[Imperius]

They should have done clan wars like chromehounds. The war progression was awesome!

[GrimNitemare]

The game needs open galactic warfare between factions and a system in place for salvage. Players should have the ability to control planets for their factions or hire lone wolf units to fight for those factions to take planets. That and salvage would give meaning to the game. The pointless 5 min matches where an atlas can take 3 hits before it blows is getting super boring.

[mekabuser]

its funny. for me the combat is better than ever.. Im a real fan of skirmish, but i too am bored.

The problem for me is i know just how much better other games are implemented. Even games in beta,and subconsciously I dont want to support the devs.

If they had done even a little bit better developing the game, I would never have thought about other games.. possible exception SC.
Sc is probably gonna gut this game.
but fair is fair. this pos gutted mwll. and worse.

[Hellen Wheels]

Mr Blonde, on 01 January 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

How hard can it really be to get CW implemented?

Considering that a task as simple as "count the number of wins for a player and award them a prize when 12 wins is reached" was beyond PGI's ken, I would say that community warfare, for them, ranks right up there with the trials of Hercules.

Which is pretty sad, considering that there are probably more than a dozen people on this forum, and hundreds more elsewhere, that could (and would) have a functioning community warfare working within a week, given the opportunity.

[SmurfOff]

GrimNitemare, on 01 January 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

The game needs open galactic warfare between factions and a system in place for salvage. Players should have the ability to control planets for their factions or hire lone wolf units to fight for those factions to take planets. That and salvage would give meaning to the game. The pointless 5 min matches where an atlas can take 3 hits before it blows is getting super boring.

Except that PGI destroyed the economy. Without Repair / Rearm, who cares about salvage? And since you don't "lose" your mech, whats the risk? And since every mech is an omni / custom mech, there is no "constraint" on a type of mech, so no advantage for holding a factory planet...

I think in the run to monetize the game, they failed to plan out the game, and are dangerously close to a "reset" moment where they have to make sweeping changes to things that people have paid "real money" for.

Sadly, PGI paid money for a franchise that they consistently ignore, and are making some horrible mistakes that history could have given them insight on.

[Dan Nashe]

I think everyone generally agrees.
Although disagree with the skill trees.
What I would actually like to see is something like half a dozen skill options per tier, 6 tiers, you can only have two active skills per tier.

To learn two from each tier would take as much time as mastering now, so new players can get competition ready (100 percent equal gear to any player) in that mech.

Once you pay for a skill unlock its always available but you can only pick 2 per tier.
so maybe you buy a mech, grab the 12 skills best for your 12 man build.
But now there's a reason to spend more time to unlock other skill options.

But the important thing for me is avoiding power creep. I don't want to see a power creep levelling system where my 3d is better than yours because I've earned 200k xp. That is not readily obtainable by a new player.
I will have more simultaneous choices, but a new player could copy my best skill build.

Just a thought.

Another good option: make top tier skills only affect meta:
example: 50k xp: mech now earns 10 percent more cbills.
50k xp: mech now earns double gxp
"" earns more loyalty points
"" unlocks custom decal
100k: earns cumulative 5percent more thing.
That way its like premium time: rewarding, but no co.petitive advantage?