12 replies to this topic

[uebersoldat]

Why don't we do something like this over on the Starbound forums?

http://chattypics.co..._j89ogik7me.png

These forums are depressing to read. I wish I could come here and read about a game I love to play and actually discuss something cool without 200 people drowning out any sort of enjoyable conversation with whining and threats and name-calling and ridiculous uprisings to try and get other players to not spend any more money etc etc.

It's just really sad and it's the only thing I'm disappointed about. These forums are toxic and I don't think it should be this way. The forums should be a place to come and discuss something you enjoy, talk about the content and lore and upcoming improvements. Criticism is of course welcome if it's constructive and helpful.

Those of you who disagree and can't see the merit in this, you are part of the problem. Stop spoiling the game and discussion for the rest of us who enjoy it.

[AdamBaines]

uebersoldat, on 20 December 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Why don't we do something like this over on the Starbound forums?

http://chattypics.co..._j89ogik7me.png

These forums are depressing to read. I wish I could come here and read about a game I love to play and actually discuss something cool without 200 people drowning out any sort of enjoyable conversation with whining and threats and name-calling and ridiculous uprisings to try and get other players to not spend any more money etc etc.

It's just really sad and it's the only thing I'm disappointed about. These forums are toxic and I don't think it should be this way. The forums should be a place to come and discuss something you enjoy, talk about the content and lore and upcoming improvements. Criticism is of course welcome if it's constructive and helpful.

Those of you who disagree and can't see the merit in this, you are part of the problem. Stop spoiling the game and discussion for the rest of us who enjoy it.

I agree with the sentiment of this post. I just don't know if that's possible here. And that makes me sad.

[Kraven Kor]

Eh... we technically already have those same rules here. It is just impossible to enforce.

Debate and critiques and negative feeback and glowing reviews and all that are all fair game.

Trying to "correct" the behavior of "bad posters" is beyond the scope of posting rules and moderation and largely relies on us completely shutting down "bad behavior."

But complaints about the game are not "bad behavior."

Complaints with insults, rage, hate, trolling, threats, or the like are bad behavior.

"Good Luck."

[Kjudoon]

uebersoldat, on 20 December 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Criticism is of course welcome if it's constructive and helpful.

Those of you who disagree and can't see the merit in this, you are part of the problem. Stop spoiling the game and discussion for the rest of us who enjoy it.

Uhhhh... Maybe my hearing ain't 20/20 anymore but your first statement is completely contradictory. It sets up the reasoning "You can criticize but then you are wrong, part of the problem and should shut up about it." for this whole thread.

Kinda tells me you've made up your mind against any other possible line of action regardless of the accuracy of an alternative or correctness of your view that the forums here are toxic. I can't see how discussing this would be helpful at this point with this attitude prevailing.

[uebersoldat]

Kjudoon, on 20 December 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Uhhhh... Maybe my hearing ain't 20/20 anymore but your first statement is completely contradictory. It sets up the reasoning "You can criticize but then you are wrong, part of the problem and should shut up about it." for this whole thread.

Kinda tells me you've made up your mind against any other possible line of action regardless of the accuracy of an alternative or correctness of your view that the forums here are toxic. I can't see how discussing this would be helpful at this point with this attitude prevailing.

Let me say this another way because I think you are missing my point, maybe even trying to twist my words around on me.

Ready? Here it goes:

Ok, I have an opinion. My opinion is x. Someone else has an opinion, y. Both are opinions and neither are wrong. There are ways to state opinions constructively and then there are ways of stating opinions by trolling, being sarcastic, rude, hateful, vengeful towards each other and the developers etc.

With something like the above example in the OP, it would give the moderators a bolder line to determine who is being a negative nancy and who is being constructive in their criticisms. There is absolutely no need for any of us to have to listen to the rage and negativity that is being spewed forth in any of the current feedback megathreads right now. Objectively, it's immature and it ruins the fun for the rest of us who come here to have a decent discussion because we like the game, universe and lore.

Edited by uebersoldat, 20 December 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Hey, I know what you're saying and wanting, I'm just pointing out the logical flaw in your argument. You can't say criticism is helpful, but that requires a difference in opinion. Then you point out that a disagreeing opinion makes you part of the problem. If you are part of the problem as stated, you must be wrong for there is the implication by extension that being part of the problem invalidates any solutions you have as you are wrong because you have a different opinion.

That's all I'm getting at. As for raising the level of discourse... it's a forum. Trolls be hatin and flamin. I've been told this forum is particularly toxic compared to other games. Okay... since I don't play other games, I wouldn't know. Ultimately, in all the other types of forums I've participated, some specifically designed to fight about different opinions, this is relatively mild although odd that those who hate the game so hard continue to play and gripe instead of doing the intelligent thing and staying out of the forums or quit the game and not come back. I'm not saying I don't have things I grief about and QQ... I do and think they're justified. There are also things I like and ideas on how to make it better. But that's me.

The hold of the Mechwarrior is apparently very strong.

[Damocles69]

I would propose that to stop the forum whine, PGI deliver the game that was promised instead of this poorly balanced, cash grab abomination we have now. Of course to accomplish this they would have to be competent developers. Seeing as that is not a possibility I further suggest you get used to it buttercup. People dont like it when you mess with an IP that has been a major part of their lives

[uebersoldat]

Damocles69, on 20 December 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

I would propose that to stop the forum whine, PGI deliver the game that was promised instead of this poorly balanced, cash grab abomination we have now. Of course to accomplish this they would have to be competent developers. Seeing as that is not a possibility I further suggest you get used to it buttercup. People dont like it when you mess with an IP that has been a major part of their lives

This post is case in point.

[NRP]

No, PGI just has to start eliminating people, Sopranos style. Either that, or impose a "whine fine" on their account. Say, a 10,000 C-Bill fine (equivalent to an in game TK) for every whiny, negative, vitriolic post?

[uebersoldat]

Kjudoon, on 20 December 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Hey, I know what you're saying and wanting, I'm just pointing out the logical flaw in your argument. You can't say criticism is helpful, but that requires a difference in opinion. Then you point out that a disagreeing opinion makes you part of the problem. If you are part of the problem as stated, you must be wrong for there is the implication by extension that being part of the problem invalidates any solutions you have as you are wrong because you have a different opinion.

That's all I'm getting at. As for raising the level of discourse... it's a forum. Trolls be hatin and flamin. I've been told this forum is particularly toxic compared to other games. Okay... since I don't play other games, I wouldn't know. Ultimately, in all the other types of forums I've participated, some specifically designed to fight about different opinions, this is relatively mild although odd that those who hate the game so hard continue to play and gripe instead of doing the intelligent thing and staying out of the forums or quit the game and not come back. I'm not saying I don't have things I grief about and QQ... I do and think they're justified. There are also things I like and ideas on how to make it better. But that's me.

The hold of the Mechwarrior is apparently very strong.

I would say thank you for being civil and constructive about the perceived flawed content of my post sir.

See, this is how it's done. This guy and I could be having a beer right now and you guys would never know it due to the civility of the argument. I'd say he's even calmer than I am. These kinds of posts prevent mods from wanting to drink when their shift is over! That is a good thing!

NRP, on 20 December 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

No, PGI just has to start eliminating people, Sopranos style. Either that, or impose a "whine fine" on their account. Say, a 10,000 C-Bill fine (equivalent to an in game TK) for every whiny, negative, vitriolic post?

I'm thinking a warning, then 30 min ban, 24 hour ban, week ban etc. Seems to me that there are a lot of pot stirrers around here that we could frankly do without.

[Kjudoon]

Those without a sense of smell have no problems stiring the crock o' fertilizer.

[uebersoldat]

I think there is also some kind of notion that each customer regardless of their behavior is a valuable asset to the community.

I think this thinking is bad business. Aside from the disgruntled players who are disappointed by the way PGI is doing business and have legitimate concerns (depending on topic, I am sometimes one of those!), you have this...sub-demographic of people within there that incite 'punishment' for PGI by their peers. It's like they want the game to fail to the detriment of all. The "N.O.P.E." movement is a good example. You also have people here that threaten to leave time and time again and people repeating themselves ad-nauseam about how much they despise PGI and how terrible this game is since *insert hot topic here*. These are bad fruits.

Well, you shouldn't mix your bad fruit with your good fruit. Don't give up on them initially, but once they show that they will continue to ruin others' enjoyment of the forum discussion they should be gone. Lost business? Maybe. But without these bad apples the rest of the harvest prospers and blooms.

I think a disclaimer plain and simple like the one in the OP is a step in the right direction. Like, you've been warned dude. Post better, for the benefit of all!

[NRP]

In all seriousness, yes, banning these types of people is the best way forward. Too many people on the internet have some weird sense of entitlement, and these "folks" should absolutely have to face the consequences of their childish actions.

Sometimes I feel like PGI is so afraid of being the "bad guy" that they allow this rabble to metastasize into something ugly, painful, and ultimately counterproductive to the whole. "Bad fruit", as you say.

Edited by NRP, 20 December 2013 - 01:33 PM.