58 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

I don't like Spiders and have always questioned why they were added over other 30 ton Mechs.
To be fair, the only REAL issue I ever encountered is this:
- Spider shows up.
- Almost every player on the opposing team targets it to the exclusion of anything else.
- Spider's team rolls up all those chasing the Spider.

When it happens, it never fails. I think some people get too caught up in killing the first thing they see.

Correct way is:
- Spider shows up.
- By all means, take shots when you can but leave the Spiders to the Lights and Mediums.
- Lights & Mediums should be on the lookout for Spiders an prevent them from tying up other team members.
- Those not chasing the Spider can now fight back against the Spider's team.

[DONTOR]

I disagree completly, before they had the hitbox pass I was still 1 hitting them with my AC20 regularily. Learn to lead them properly would be my best advice. Hit regstration still isnt 100% however so this could be your problem aswell.

[Skyfaller]

I drive a spider as my main ride and I can tell you its not a problem with the mech model or hit registration.

In fact, the problem is the convergence settings of the guns.

If you have a video recording software that lets you film in HD, film yourself firing the LBX10 or the SRM or AC at the spider. Now go an re-play the video in the parts where you shoot the spider in slow motion.

You will see that weapons like the LBX and AC and MG for the most part will NOT all hit the Spider's torso or legs because the ammo goes in BETWEEN the legs or goes between the spider's arms and chest. Only a few shrapnel/SRM/AC rounds will hit the mech itself. When they hit, they strike different locations almost ever time because the spider is not only moving damn fast, its also twisting the torso or legs a lot.

Why? Because the mechs weapons converge ONLY at the range where the aimpoint is set at..that means the weapons will ONLY converge on the spider IF the aimpoint is AT the spider.... and if you aim it AT the spider then you wont hit it because its moving very fast.

You need to take a leading shot at a spider. That means your aimpoint is at some point behind the spider.. usually FAR away.

A jager DD firing 6 machine guns or AC2s leading a spider that is 50m will have them converging at a spot 100+m behind the spider. The guns then are literally firing straight ahead.

What the jager sees: the ammo from his 6 ballistics flying towards the spider...then they go through the spider..spider armor blinks but takes very little damage.

What the spider sees: Jager on his left is firing... then he sees a LOT of ammo tracers fly in FRONT of it, takes a hit to the arm and leg, keeps going.

The jager keeps firing AC2, multiple volleys, sees the spider take very little damage. /rage.

What happens: Out of the 6 AC2 rounds, 3 flew right in front of the spider since there was no convergence. Of the other 3, one hits the arm and a second hits the leg. The third round flew either between the legs or above the spider's head. The following volleys have similar results...except the spider was twisting torso and taking the AC2 hit in the CT or LT or RT or the other arm or leg. Spider has enough armor to survive such pecking and the size and speed to make hitting it very difficult.

The best way to kill a spider is to aim at the lower half of the legs. Knee-down. Your aimpoint will be almost at the same distance as the spider so your weapon will converge. Blowing a leg in a spider = dead spider.

[Rick Bassman]

Bront, on 22 December 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

I've had no such problem. Spiders have been quite killable since the patch. They patched out the "hole" in the CT a long time ago, and the hitbox fix helped fix damage registering in general on the Spider.

That said, all lights have Lag issues, but the Spider's are no worse than a raven's, Locust's, or Jenner's.

I can easily one-shot a Locust with my Yen-Lo. Ravens and Jenners... not so much, but at least when I hit them (and the shot registers damage) I can do damage. Spiders... well let's talk about this for a second. I was in a match yesterday with my Yen-Lo. I hit this one Spider three times with my AC 20 in different locations (these were registered hits to the arm, torso and leg) and he ran off. At the end of the match, there's this one spider again, only now somehow he was legged. It took no less than three assaults and myself more than 45 seconds to finally finish off this lone, crippled spider in a circle of concentrated death.

While the last pass on their HBs helped, it's still a broken machine and here's why ---

El Bandito, on 22 December 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

And then you die to anyone larger than 50 tons--which is the overwhelming majority of the mechs that drop.

Doesn't help that all 55 ton mechs are Assault mech sized.

Why does my 50 ton Trebuchet tower over the 55ton Wolverine, the 65 ton Thud and even the 85 ton Battlemaster? Scaling in this game sometimes verges on abominable. The Spider at 30 tons takes up less surface area than the 20 ton Locust or the 25 ton Commando. The Spider, even with hit boxes outside it's body, is enhanced by the wonky scaling. My hope is that they soon start to address this problem, hopefully before they're finished with hit box remapping but I'm not holding my breath.

This isn't QQ about a specific mech and that mech should be removed. Especially when that mech is the only one in it's weight available. This is a reiteration of the most common complaint about the game in terms of HSR and hit boxes and presumably the best way to balance the game overall. I understand that the Devs system works in a vacuum (mass v. width v. height = mech size), but the results are not uniform.

Case and point: a 50 ton Hunchback is barely taller than a 40 ton Cicada, slightly taller than a 45 ton Blackjack, stands to the shoulder of the 50 Centurion which in turn stands as tall as the 50 ton Trebuchet's shoulder. Three mechs of the same mass and that are humanoid in shape have three very disparate heights and not so much disparate widths. The widest of the three also happens to be the tallest.

If you want to actually fix the Spider, increase it's size by 10% or at least bring all the other into a scale in which is more appropriate for the tonnage so then maybe everyone who runs smaller can enjoy the HSR tanking feature implicit in the coding of the game.

[VectorCV6]

There is a major problem with them now. Before as others have said, you could AC/20 them and blow them away if you get a good hit on them. Now, you can't do anything, I have had one stand still and have witnessed 3 people firing and it still takes 2 burst from all players. I can kill anything else easier than them and with lets shots. Either lower the armor amount to put it in line with other mechs, or make it the proper scale.

I triyto leg them as that is the most effective way to kill them now, did a direct AC/20 to the leg and it failed to register on the leg and spread it everywhere else.

[Leafia Barrett]

VectorCV6, on 23 December 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

There is a major problem with them now. Before as others have said, you could AC/20 them and blow them away if you get a good hit on them. Now, you can't do anything, I have had one stand still and have witnessed 3 people firing and it still takes 2 burst from all players. I can kill anything else easier than them and with lets shots. Either lower the armor amount to put it in line with other mechs, or make it the proper scale.

I try to leg them as that is the most effective way to kill them now, did a direct AC/20 to the leg and it failed to register on the leg and spread it everywhere else.

So... let me get this straight. The Spider is harder to hit now that it has bigger hitboxes?

[Effectz]

Amsro, on 23 December 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

I didn't read the entire thread, but to be blunt;

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPIDERS.

Seriously stop this {Scrap}. Hit detection is KNOWN to be bad, meaning this happens with ALL mechs.

So other mechs can dance around 5 Assaults and heavies taking minimal damage?


Yeah..no.

Are you a spider pilot Amsro?

Edited by Effectz, 23 December 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[Sable Dove]

I agree with the title. Spiders are more broken after they were intentionally broken.

As the only mech that has hitboxes that are significantly larger than the actual model, the Spider is much easier to hit than if it weren't broken.

The one hitbox problem that they did have, they still do, just like every mech that had the same problem before and after their "fixes."

[Abivard]

I suspect that hotfix we had reset spiders to how they were a couple months ago.
Aim for the legs with lasers. or use streaks. arty and air work well also!

[Amsro]

Effectz, on 23 December 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

So other mechs can dance around 5 Assaults and heavies taking minimal damage?


Yeah..no.

Are you a spider pilot Amsro?

Yes I pilot spiders, and how does that change the point I made that ALL mechs suffer from poor hit detection?

I also pilot other mechs, all of which are in my signature.

I can dance around Assaults in any mech that runs faster then 100km/h.

Are you a bad pilot Effectz?

[DodgerH2O]

Effectz, on 23 December 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

So other mechs can dance around 5 Assaults and heavies taking minimal damage?

Not directed at me but... I do it quite often in my Jenner. Which, as I only have one, completely lacks speed tweak and doubled basics, so it's far less nimble than my Spiders. The primary thing is that Jenners lack shield arms, and their CT is a damage magnet so instead of getting minimal damage spread over 5 components (LA, RA, LT, RT, CT) it gets minimal damage to the CT and a super tiny bit on the side torsos and arms.

Yes I also pilot Spiders. And Ravens. And a Commando. And a Locust. Mechs without jumpjets do not survive anywhere close to as long, it's not really fair to compare them.

[Effectz]

Amsro, on 23 December 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Yes I pilot spiders, and how does that change the point I made that ALL mechs suffer from poor hit detection?

I also pilot other mechs, all of which are in my signature.

I can dance around Assaults in any mech that runs faster then 100km/h.

Are you a bad pilot Effectz?

Let me Rephrase that,can you last over a minute in something that goes over 100km/h while getting alpha'd/Hit by 5 Assaults,heavies but yet taking minimal damage.

No I'm not a bad pilot.

[Amsro]

Effectz, on 24 December 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Let me Rephrase that,can you last over a minute in something that goes over 100km/h while getting alpha'd/Hit by 5 Assaults,heavies but yet taking minimal damage.

No I'm not a bad pilot.

If 5 Assaults/Heavies are all shooting alphas at me I've done something wrong to get into that situation.

I can't even do that in my spider. Then again I will play in such a way to make the big mechs shoot each other.

I'll believe your not a bad pilot, but I think your scenario is a little wacky. I can leg all lights in 1-2 shots and have NO issues killing/hitting them when I pilot heavies and assaults.

My last question's to you are... do you pilot spiders? How is your super elite spider stats? Do they really feel OP when you zoom around?

Yeah... no.

I tend to find people that hate/don't pilot lights are the ones that think they are OP.

[Karazyr]

Effectz, on 23 December 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

lasers do not carve up spiders,I've seen hundreds of times where a spider is last left on the enemy team and theres 6 other mechs shooting it for at least 2 minutes while it dances around taking minimal damage.

really? whats your ping?

i find most people have this issue if they have ether low or very high ping, this is why i get confused when people say they stand still and fire at a spider and nothing happens.

i have personally never seen this happen.

[Effectz]

Amsro, on 24 December 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

If 5 Assaults/Heavies are all shooting alphas at me I've done something wrong to get into that situation.

I can't even do that in my spider. Then again I will play in such a way to make the big mechs shoot each other.

I'll believe your not a bad pilot, but I think your scenario is a little wacky. I can leg all lights in 1-2 shots and have NO issues killing/hitting them when I pilot heavies and assaults.

My last question's to you are... do you pilot spiders? How is your super elite spider stats? Do they really feel OP when you zoom around?

Yeah... no.

I tend to find people that hate/don't pilot lights are the ones that think they are OP.

I have just under 800 drops in my Jenner's and raven 3L I certainly don't hate lights.As for your do I pilot A spider question no I don't own them but I certainly know what it's like to shoot at them.They aren't as bad since the hitbox fix but they certainly aren't fixed.I see a trend on here,people who pilot spiders a lot tend to say there's nothing wrong with them.

Anymore questions I can answer?

Derrpy, on 24 December 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

really? whats your ping?

i find most people have this issue if they have ether low or very high ping, this is why i get confused when people say they stand still and fire at a spider and nothing happens.

i have personally never seen this happen.

My ping is normally 113.

Edited by Effectz, 24 December 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Amsro]

Effectz, on 24 December 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

I have just under 800 drops in my Jenner's and raven 3L I certainly don't hate lights.As for your do I pilot A spider question no I don't own them but I certainly know what it's like to shoot at them.They aren't as bad since the hitbox fix but they certainly aren't fixed.I see a trend on here,people who pilot spiders a lot tend to say there's nothing wrong with them.

Anymore questions I can answer?

I see a trend on here? The only "trend" I see are people who DON'T pilot spiders tend to say there's something wrong with them.

Statistically they are mediocre compared to the rest of my mechs, far from OP and far from NEVER dying.

What you are actually perceiving is terrible convergence due to the narrow shape of the spider, just leg them its soo easy.

[DrxAbstract]

Dogmeat1, on 22 December 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

hit registration is a major issue in this game, not just for spiders, but for all mechs. It's just that the smaller the mech's profile and the faster it moves, the bigger the issue becomes. I have lost count of the number of times I've seen spiders taking multiple CT hits without any damage occurring, even when they were standing still or shut down. However I've also taken down many spiders,(and other mechs) with shots that seemed to completely miss on screen but still registered a hit.

The smaller and faster a Mech is the harder it is to hit. Hit registration errors do not magically grow in proportion to decreasing chassis size... So no, the actual problem does not increase as Mech size decreases.

Dogmeat1, on 22 December 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

These issues are understandable and its not an easy problem to fix. I would be more lenient if this was a budget game or completely free. However considering how many hours or MC purchases (which add up to more than the cost of a regular paid game) that need to be poured into the game to get anywhere, these issues are completely unacceptable. The lack of local servers and the constant frame rate drops on certain machines (mostly with higher end nvidia cards) that more than exceed even the recommended requirements, combined with the issue of ghost hits and non-hit registration leads to a increasingly frustrating experience the more time you put into this game. obviously the issues don't appear for everyone (server proximity probably affects this) but I imagine a lot of new players have simply walked away from this game after a week or two due these problems not being addressed.

Depends a great deal on your definition of 'budget', as PGI is a relatively small operation that has a small budget in manpower. While i agree that much time is needed to get progress, MC purchases are a convenience not a requirement - Cut the misleading half-truth statements please.

As for frame rate drops on 'high-end' cards, MWO operates like most other PC games - It utilizes your CPU considerably more than your GPU. Upgrading your 2.0Ghz CPU, 4GB RAM PC to 3.0+ and 8+ GB instead of buying the 'latest' video card would yield much better PC performance in every aspect, not just gaming. So says years of gamer experience and my 4.0Ghz at 12GB RAM running max graphics at 60fps vsync on a 3 year old video card. A little bit of understanding your PC and how software utilizes its resources goes a long way.

Everything else you've said has some merit, however.

[Lunaya]

Am I the only Spider pilot who dies to AC hits at times or something? Streaks and Lasers are more effective but ones does not require aim, and the other you can strafe with the beam, sure wont all be one location but you will widdle us down. I have taken AC20s, AC5, 2s and Ultra hits. They may not be what kills me all the time (AC20s) but they rip apart my armor.

[VectorCV6]

Leafia Barrett, on 23 December 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

So... let me get this straight. The Spider is harder to hit now that it has bigger hitboxes?

No, I think its hit box registration is messed up, spreading it more often than it should and not allocating it to a specific part.