11 replies to this topic

[VegetaFH1]

Hello everybody

This topic is made after reading the proposed changes to clan tech to keep with game balance

Throw it all out the window. except for maybe the customization flexability (thats actually an improvement in my eyes)

Ill explain why right now
First things first, in the lore (Yes im lore whoring) Clanners were very much the agressors in many if not ALL assaults surrounding the IS after the inital invasion, it is said in many of the books and even by developers from way back, even as far back as the original creators that clanners would hunt IS mechs in single or duo groups, even when up against platoons of IS Mechs

This is the very foundation of what it means to be a Clanner, you have superior firepower, outnumbered 10 to 1 and still ready to blow stuff up.
The changes im about to suggest reflect ALL of this, makes things so much easier and balanced while keeping the original idea of Clan Tech intact and present in both lore AND ingame experiance

Its a simple solution, 1 clan mech = 4 IS mechs, in match making, you all know how it works, 3 groups of 4 IS mechs, we call them lances (3 lances)
Now replace one of those lances with a single Clan Mech, yes... its tougher, its got more firepower to boot and it may be piloted by the most pro of players, its still one mech instead of 4, now imagen that we exchange the entire side for 3 clan mechs (THE WAY ITS MENT TO BE) thats 12 vs 3, you and your teammates may be the BEST players on the planet, your still gonna have a tough time

Nobody said it was easy to be a Clanner, infact if anything, its harder to be a clanner and ill say it again, you may have the firepower and be very tough, but you have to FIGHT to earn your pride as a Clanner

Need i even mention the fact that Clanners arent above shooting their teammates in the back just to increase the stacks, the shear adrenaline they run on would kill any IS pilot stone dead

These guys live for war, its all they know, dont cripple them before they get out of the gate

Tell me what you guys think below

-VegetaFH1
NO GUTS, NO GALAXY

PS: Furthermore, last i checked, if match making is looking for less players, the process is faster, so this may infact fix any match making issues the game may have

Edited by VegetaFH1, 22 December 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[Polarice]

I cant see 3vs12 working at all. Even if everything was kept at TT values.
Considering speed of being able to close and the fact that each map has boundaries, each clanner would be rounded up and slaughtered. Not much fun for the clanner no matter how much they enjoy one v one.

[Nick Makiaveli]

The flaw in your logic is that we, the players, aren't Clanners. So you could easily have new players running Clan mechs and get murdered.

The second issue that jumps to mind is that lore-based Clan tech would make any and all IS tech totally worthless, and thus there would no reason to run an IS mech except for RP purposes or the fact that you love a certain mech type.

This wouldn't be good for the game, as many of us aren't big fans of the Clanners. So that wouldn't be good for player retention.

[VegetaFH1]

Clanners dont enjoy 1v1.. where did u get that idea from?

And while yes i do agree 3v12 being a very exhaunting fight if you got into it, i do think it rewarding to overcome such odds

And yes Nick i do know that players arent clanners, though i doubt new players would be running clan tech... considering the expencive nature of it and the fact that they wouldnt even be C-bill purchasible for atleast another year or so
Besides, you get better by learning the hard way... and this is most definatly the hard way

Id love to know how you come to the conclusion of IS tech being worthless after this? since you would clearly have a number advantage on the field, plus the fact that IS tech is more stable then their Clan counterparts

[Eddrick]

I would be okay with this if the Match Maker actually worked. I like challenge. I just don't want to see the IS side being 1-3 people short on the start. When the trade-off is suppose to be superior numbers.

Edited by Eddrick, 22 December 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

VegetaFH1, on 22 December 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Clanners dont enjoy 1v1.. where did u get that idea from?

From the fact that the Clans ritual combat system, Zellbrigen or "zell", is largely based in the preference for one-on-one duels and includes among its proscriptions:

• "Each warrior will issue a challenge to a different enemy. If one side outnumbers the other, then the extra warriors on that side will stand aside until one of their comrades falls in battle. A warrior can challenge more than one unit at a time."
  
• "Systems that requires multiple units to operate, like C3 and TAG, are forbidden."

Moreover, "if the rules of zellbrigen are broken the fight will then degenerate into a melee, a free-for-all battle with no restrictions; such an outcome though is considered a major breach of honor, usually punished by a loss of rank".

The Clans' own customs promote the idea of the duel as the ideal form of combat, while also pushing the idea that having multiple units "ganging up on" a single opponent is arguably one of the more despicable actions that could be undertaken in their eyes (and one to be undertaken only against opponents who've "broken protocol" first and/or have proven unworthy of being respected in their eyes in the first place (as with pirates, criminals, and those with a history of disregarding zell and "fighting dirty")).

Also, note that Zellbrigen (the code-of-conduct/rules-of-engagement) is a distinct concept from Honor Level (the degree to which a given warrior or unit actually adheres to zell's proscriptions).

[Mike McSullivan]

Even if the roundsetup is 1 Star (5 Clanmechs) vs 3 Lances (12), i doubt that the Clannerside would have a chance to win (maybe the topprogamers on voip against nonvoip pugs).
The "problem" here lies in the mechanic of MWO itself. The maps are to small, no/rare real cover, the firingrates and hitratios are to high. If i see actually how fast the last 5 mechs die in a steamroll-match, no matter what weight, it wouldnt even end well if these mechs would do doubled damage (=clans).
1vs1 is another piece of the cake (and dont even think about the forum qq about balance)

Edited by Mike McSullivan, 22 December 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[xengk]

I agree with Nick, we the player behind the mouse and keyboard are not vet grown super warrior.
But no amount of piloting skill will save them from being focus fire by a lance of IS mechs, unless all Clan mech have 70% damage reduction against IS mechs.
If Clan mech are vastly superior to IS in armour, damage, range and mobility, many more will start to think Clan are P2W mechs.

Having 3 vs 12 match will only be full of frustration.

[Monkey Lover]

xengk, on 22 December 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

unless all Clan mech have 70% damage reduction against IS mechs.
\

I hear this is the case for the platinum mechs for $1000 each

[Nastyogre]

If you played any TT you know that the 4 or more to 1 ratio was strictly lore. If you played the game, IS tech, even 3025 tech, could win at 2 to 1, though it was close, probably in favor of the Clanner. 3 to 1? Not close. So company vs Star? Probably the company (that's 12 IS mechs 5 Clan) is going to go IS most of the time barring an assault or heavy star vs a light company. Even a medium company should handle a heavy star. IS won't recognize Zell and even if the clanners break zell (and some don't even if their opponents do) too much armor and too many guns.

Hell clanners let a new opposing mech get reloaded. Why do you think you see Guass rifles with 1 ton of ammo?

In MWO? It would be a slaughter, even if the Clanners got pure conversions of the tech. True DHS, half-weight lrms, more effective AMS, automatic case, everything. Simply because the 12 mechs could ********* the clanners down. It's not like tabletop where more than half your shots miss routinely unless you are at close range.

A dozen lights well played would crush any 5 clan heavy/assaults. Mix in some meds and PUG's would beat Teams with just a single star.

I don't know how to balance the Clan stuff. Frankly, it shouldn't show up at all until community warfare is worked out.

I suppose they could do some kind of Zell. Clan players observing or not, but if they break zell they have steep win penalties. Say if you don't win by a large margin it counts as a loss. It won't happen though. Unless they have some way to "tag" units for challenge and alert you what is your target and not. Remember too, accidental fire that hits another mek initiates general melee as well also crossing certain lines on the field. Its very complex and not feasible on these small maps. Probably three times bigger we'd need.

It will be terrible. I am certainly not paying for meks I don't want to have the few I do. The unseen packs were bad enough.

[Lexx]

I like the idea of 5v12 but 3v12 is taking it too far.

You used the tabletop game as a comparison, but in TT clan pilots generally had much better piloting and gunnery skills. It's hard to translate that into MWO even if they were given a different and superior skill tree. Also the range advantage in TT translated to more accuracy since if you're firing at medium range for your weapon when your opponent is at long range, you are more likely to hit. Clan weapons would still do more damage past optimum range in MWO, but not enough up close to overcome being outnumbered 4 to 1 while taking concentrated fire.

I like the idea of outnumbered clan players since I think nerfing clan tech to IS levels and breaking most every variant is a bad idea. I think they should be close to TT values since they would need to be if fighting outnumbered.

5v12, or star vs. company might work, but the clanners would get slaughtered 3v12 no matter how good they are.

[Egomane]

If you want your feedback to be heard, you have better chances if you post it to the official feedback thread.
http://mwomercs.com/...ctive-feedback/

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