15 replies to this topic

[NecessaryWeevil]

So I want to like the Catapult, I really do. But I struggle to top 150 damage per match (I can get 300 in a good match in my sniper/scout Spider).

If I try to hide behind cover and fire indirect, either nobody bothers to lock targets, they can't hold them for more than a second, or the enemy inevitably has cover. If I try to find my own targets, I am picked apart by long-range direct fire before my missiles even land. I soon die because my team has scattered or we get flanked.

What do you guys see in them that I'm missing? So far they are just a lot of frustration - why bother with weapons that take forever to reach their target, when direct-fire weapons with equal or greater range exist??

[focuspark]

My two most successful Catapult builds are the 3x Large Laser C1 and the 6x SRM4 A1.

Neither use LRM, because LRM sucks with PUGs.

[Bilbo]

You have to stay close to but behind the group. If you are getting obliterated by direct fire you are not in the right place. Your teammates should be giving back as much as you are recieving. Tag can also be helpful. Use target decay and advanced sensor modules and equip artemis to decrease lock and extend lock time.

[Myomes]

NecessaryWeevil, on 23 December 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

So I want to like the Catapult, I really do. But I struggle to top 150 damage per match (I can get 300 in a good match in my sniper/scout Spider).

If I try to hide behind cover and fire indirect, either nobody bothers to lock targets, they can't hold them for more than a second, or the enemy inevitably has cover. If I try to find my own targets, I am picked apart by long-range direct fire before my missiles even land. I soon die because my team has scattered or we get flanked.

What do you guys see in them that I'm missing? So far they are just a lot of frustration - why bother with weapons that take forever to reach their target, when direct-fire weapons with equal or greater range exist??

focuspark, on 23 December 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

My two most successful Catapult builds are the 3x Large Laser C1 and the 6x SRM4 A1.

Neither use LRM, because LRM sucks with PUGs.

you guys have bad luck. I routinely PUG and find huge missile spam either on my team or the other team or both. If your team stays in a blob, rest assured you will get locks.

Try moving lateral to your team and the enemy team. You want your missiles to come from the sides where cover is less used or effective for the enemy.

[Skyfaller]

ghost heat made lrms useless. The only thing that made LRMs worth using was the ability to salvo fire them. With ghost heat you cant do that with the larger LRMs and firing one launcher at a time dilutes the 'artillery' effect of it. You're far better off using a pair of PPCs instead of LRMs sadly.

[Roughneck45]

Missiles have appeal?

If you have good aim LRMs are bad, and SRMs are underpowered

[C E Dwyer]

lrms can work with pugs but..the trouble is people sit to far behind and rely on indirect to much..lrm is poorly named, as really they're medium ranged missile with limited indirect ability.


people strip to much off mechs and load up tone after tonne of ammo and then cripple themselves relying on other or the lack of ecm on.

people make the big mistake of staying at the back and not moving much with lrm boats, then bleating about being abandoned when a spider rips them apart because they removed all the lasers for mooore missiles!

you keep moving you go with a crowd, doors open and at about 700 yard slow burn lurms at possible targets, once you feel confident its not going to make cover give them the works, but allways moving using torso twist to keep that lock and tag on it if you run it.

once your into medium laser range chain fire them and the missiles, from about 250 unless your targets almost dead, shut the doors and kill with lasers...then repeat..

bad boats stay away from fighting and only engage once the missles are gone good ones use lasers and lurms in harmony

[Nick Makiaveli]

Skyfaller, on 23 December 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

ghost heat made lrms useless. The only thing that made LRMs worth using was the ability to salvo fire them. With ghost heat you cant do that with the larger LRMs and firing one launcher at a time dilutes the 'artillery' effect of it. You're far better off using a pair of PPCs instead of LRMs sadly.

This only applies to LRM 15 and 20s, and only for more than 2. You can add LRM 5 or 10s to the mix and not get ghost heat.


As to the the OPs issues, as others have said, stay behind the group and you should be able to get a decent lock either from a PUG or your own. TAG works wonders.

Even better is team up with someone over VOIP so you can get a solid lock and focus fire. Plenty of TS servers listed on the forums. I assume FRR has one or more, but I have never heard of any House turning people away, so poke around and see what you can dig up.

There's also many merc units recruiting as well. Whatever you do, stay away from the Death's Hand Brigade...those guys are trouble

I kid, we do have a applicant process and don't accept just anyone. But unless you are a jerk, you shouldn't have major problems getting in. We have both competitive and casual members, so no worries about "being good enough". We have training sessions, both basic and advanced, our own TS server etc etc. If you ever decide the FRR military just doesn't pay well enough, head on over

[ToxinTractor]

Another trick a lot of folks are not mentioning as well- At the start of the game. You know when you see all those LRMs firing off and missing? Yea dont be one of those guys.

Hard to maintain locks at the start of the game since folks are either in a ECM bubble or they light mechs moving really fast. Best to wait until the fighting actually starts and support your brawlers with LRM support- Keep moving as well, Some mechs like the treb can be fast while using a nice number of LRMs to support its team. Think of it like this man. Its a Long range AC20 if you use a LRM 20. other wise its 16 damage/11 damage and 5.5 damage respectively. (More like 22 damage cause missiles do 1.1)

Much lighter then a AC5/10 and for those you have to make large changes to your build for them to work well. they also carry less rounds then LRMs

LRMs are also best used with some sort of Tag or NARC and until NARC is fixed just use tag. since it helps to bring the missiles closer to there CT.

Edited by ToxinTractor, 23 December 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[sneeking]

stick with it and soon you will understand where you need to be and when you need to be there, I hated catapults at first but now mastered my opinion changed ( sold my k2 though ).

lrm boating in my opinion is fast easy money, thats the appeal

don't get me wrong though, if you want to do this sort of thing ( especially in an a1 like I do ) it can go really wrong at any moment. once your caught its over !

Edited by sneeking, 23 December 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[Kaijin]

Skyfaller, on 23 December 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

ghost heat made lrms useless. The only thing that made LRMs worth using was the ability to salvo fire them. With ghost heat you cant do that with the larger LRMs and firing one launcher at a time dilutes the 'artillery' effect of it. You're far better off using a pair of PPCs instead of LRMs sadly.

Ghost heat didn't make LRMs useless.

Due to a lack of slot limitations, mechs that typically carried a large number of SRM launchers were customized in the mech lab to carry a large number of LRM launchers instead. When LRM speed and damage was good, this lead to an OP situation. First missile speed was nerfed, and an "incoming missles" warning was added, giving anyone but a complete idi0t the opportunity to step behind a rock and avoid all damage. The complete idiots complained - perhaps they felt they were being discriminated against - and so damage was dropped from 1.8 per missile to 1.1 per missile. And we can't forget ECM - the 1.5 ton piece of equipment that makes using LRMs for anything but a light show pretty difficult.

If all the other weapon types required one to keep a TAG laser pointed at an ECM-equipped target for 10 seconds in order to score a hit, can you imagine the tears then?

It is possible still to be effective with LRMs, but only with unrealistically high skills and a lot of luck. My Founder's mech is a Catapult-C1, and since ghost heat nerfed my only hero mech, the C1 is my money-maker. My last match I got 3 kills and 5 assists. I got the 3 kills with my medium lasers after I'd run out of missiles. Granted - It was Crimson Strait, so luck was not with me.

Edited by Kaijin, 23 December 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

It takes some practice to learn where to go and when to fire (and when to hold your fire).

some basic tips: Stick closer to the team so you can see what they're shooting at and so they can watch your back. Bring backup weapons. Keep practicing. Use the team text comm to tell your teammates you have LRMs. Don't try to use them on targets in heavy cover, or who are 800-1000 m away (they have too much time to get into cover). Bring a BAP.

Here are some recent, relevant threads:
http://mwomercs.com/...m-commandments/
http://mwomercs.com/...a-missile-boat/

Edited by Redshift2k5, 23 December 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[FireSlade]

NecessaryWeevil, on 23 December 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

So I want to like the Catapult, I really do. But I struggle to top 150 damage per match (I can get 300 in a good match in my sniper/scout Spider).

If I try to hide behind cover and fire indirect, either nobody bothers to lock targets, they can't hold them for more than a second, or the enemy inevitably has cover. If I try to find my own targets, I am picked apart by long-range direct fire before my missiles even land. I soon die because my team has scattered or we get flanked.

What do you guys see in them that I'm missing? So far they are just a lot of frustration - why bother with weapons that take forever to reach their target, when direct-fire weapons with equal or greater range exist??

I use this and it easily will do everything that you demand of it within reason. My CAT-C1 http://mwo.smurfy-ne...206008609d03397 for more punch but you have to be even more careful , since there is no back up weapon, is my CAT-C4 http://mwo.smurfy-ne...03f7730fe450502.

One mistake is that people will load up on too many missiles and then have issues with lack of ammo or not enough room. I found that when you use too much missiles then when they miss you just wasted all that ammo. Another mistake that I see is that people will put more missiles than they have tubes thus slowing down their rate of fire and allowing enemy AMS to pick off more missiles. For the most part turn off chain fire (better yet put it on a separate trigger so that you have it when you need it) and fire a large volley. Pick your cover wisely and do not give up speed unless you have to since if you cannot out run the enemy or your team leave you being (they will) you can quickly be over run. I try to aim for at least 36 shots (for LRM30 that is 1080 missiles [1188 damage worth] and LRM 40 that is 1440 [1584 damage worth]).

With mechs with bay doors put the door key close to your left hand (mine is “Z”) so that you can open and close it quickly. With it open it creates a huge easy to shoot/see profile for your arms. Also, the indicator is a LED on the a-pillar. Another thing people screw up on is they stand still. If you ever tried sniping in any FPS and stay in one spot, what happens? Same thing in MWO the LRM missiles are really easy to spot and people will want your head because you are a big threat. Keep your eyes open scanning your back (might want to invest in seismic sensor module, grab target decay too for that matter). Try not to aim at lights unless you are sure that they will hit because they can slightly out run your missiles.

The biggest hint that I can give you is that you are not there for the kills; you will get them but your main job is to soften the enemy up so that direct fire mechs can kill them and so that they keep their heads down for fear of a LRM volley hitting them. This will help you out big time and you will get bonuses for TAG and assists which makes the most c-bills. Oh before I forget and because I see a lot of people making this mistake LRMs that are fired under 180 meters will do 0 damage so use this to your advantage or prevent someone else from doing so. Leave TAG off unless you need it, the enemy can see the beam and follow it and do not use it over 750 meters. Expect to fail especially in PUGs (or remind them that you are their missile support). Good luck and good hunting.

[sneeking]

I try to show some fire restraint, let the battle get started while you focus on position and cycle all available targets for assessment ( look for damaged enemys who are currently engaged ) you will pick up more crits and likelihood of a kill for less expenditure is higher which both will result in a better payday.

avoid shooting fresh mechs from long range early in the battle this will cost ammo other players will get all the kills crits and also the assists because your out of rockets and have not engaged for too long. ( poor payday )

try to milk the field for maximum cbills.

[Victor Morson]

Since this keeps coming up and the forums are loaded with terrible LRM advice..

Victor Morson, on 21 December 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

I wrote an LRM guide here

Bullet point version:

• You need to be fast
  
• You need TAG
  
• You need BAP
  
• You need Artemis
  
• Adv. Target Decay is a great module.
  
• UAV is also highly useful in tandem with LRMs if you are quick enough.
  
• LRMs are too heavy on most 'mechs to mount backup weapons - it's best to go all-in (with TAG).

-



Note of how the BAP+TAG and smaller, tighter groups results in pure-CT shots numerous times, while the speed allows optimal range and a huge evasion rate in every LRM exchange.

Skirmisher Shadow Hawk

If you really want an assault mboat, the only good option is the BattleMaster, which can be setup to move in the mid 80s - not too bad for something so heavy. After Speed Tweak, a really good 55 tonner boat should go around 90, or just under.

You're going to get a ton of other advice (and arguments for the necessity of backup weapons) but I will tell you now, the tonnage wasted in armoring limbs and adding guns is better spent on specializing and putting on ammo; do this one role and do it well.

LRMs are very easy to counter on slower 'mechs and too heavy for light ones, but these fast-movers are hard to pin.

Other options: Centurion, Griffin, Kintaro (KTO-18 specifically. NEVER the Golden Boy.) KTO is the last choice model, though, and I'd pick any of the others first for it.

I think that will help you immensely.

[Johnny Reb]

Proper( i.e. high scores) lrm use requires knowledge of the map and bringing alot of lrms. True lrm boat brings 50+, can effectively use less but not the same. LRMS really shine when you have a coordinated pair, lrm 100+ on a target is just unfair...