192 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

It's the weekend so 10+ heavies/assaults per match is wearing thin. As a primary medium pilot I feel as if there little to no other purpose in piloting a medium mech but to provide fodder for mouth breathers who like to spam alphas.

PGI is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

[SilentWolff]

They are very viable. Learn how to play them. (hint: if your playing them like a heavy or assault your doing it wrong)

[Vassago Rain]

SilentWolff, on 13 October 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

They are very viable. Learn how to play them. (hint: if your playing them like a heavy or assault your doing it wrong)

They are not very viable, and will not be viable until they're given something they're good at.

[SilentWolff]

Guess I gotta add you to the the list of l2p Vassago

[PEEFsmash]

SilentWolff, on 13 October 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Guess I gotta add you to the the list of l2p Vassago

What is your explanation of medium viability outside of b-lining 2 streak Kintaros to the enemy base and hope to cheese out a win against defending lights?

[Mcgral18]

Well, AC20 BJs work alright. Though, you can't really go toe to toe against an assault.

It's my favourite thing to take, but you need to stay next to a friendly heavy or assault.

[SilentWolff]

Cicada 3M and the Treb are great moblie sniping mechs.

The problem is mediums probably take the most skill in the game to play effectively. But they are by no means lacking in effectiveness in the right hands. My unit proves that every night we play.

So yeah, l2p.

[BookWyrm]

It's rather Orwellian at the moment actually. All mechs are viable, just some more viable than others.

[PEEFsmash]

SilentWolff, on 13 October 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Cicada 3M and the Treb are great moblie sniping mechs.

The problem is mediums probably take the most skill in the game to play effectively. But they are by no means lacking in effectiveness in the right hands. My unit proves that every night we play.

So yeah, l2p.

I have never seen your unit use jumpsniping Trebuchets. The Cicada isn't really included in the "Medium" debate because it is scaled like a light and plays like a light. People who have complaints about the weakness of the medium class typically are not referring to Cicadas.

And...when does your unit play? Do you still play full 12 mans with your own unit? Tournaments? etc?

Edited by PEEFsmash, 13 October 2013 - 10:33 AM.

[Bront]

Plenty of mediums are viable. In competitive play, Cicadas and Cents are still popular, and even a Streaktaro or two. In more casual play, I still see plenty of Hunchies do well too.

Mediums will be more viable when tonnage restrictions come into play though. Right now, there's no reason to worry about how big your mech is, and Heavies and assaults are "easier" to play (They aren't, but that's a different point). Meanwhile, a medium means you can't simply find a target and unload till one of you drops, so it requires a bit more skill and finesse to pickup and work on.

That said, assaults and heavies really aren't simply an "aim and unload" mech either when played to their best. THere's more skill than many folks think involved when piloting them in order to get the best out of them.

I play a little of everything. Mediums were my least favorite, but I still whip out my Cent-D on occasion to great effect.

[Snowcrow]

They will be viable when tonnage limits are in the game.

[SilentWolff]

We were using Treb's as jump snipers months ago and they are quite effective. Doesnt matter if you dont consider the Cicada a medium or not, cause guess what, it is a medium. You cant say mediums suck, then not include a medium that is quite effective because it doesnt fit your narrative.

[Toong]

Mediums are already viable. I run mediums almost exclusively, and in a typical match I see plenty of other mediums, especially Hunchbacks, Centurions, and Cicadas.

[PEEFsmash]

SilentWolff, on 13 October 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

We were using Treb's as jump snipers months ago and they are quite effective. Doesnt matter if you dont consider the Cicada a medium or not, cause guess what, it is a medium. You cant say mediums suck, then not include a medium that is quite effective because it doesnt fit your narrative.

Well you aren't getting it. Nobody is arguing that the Cicada needs to be buffed, they are arguing that many medium mechs aren't as good as many Heavy and Assault mechs, in particular the "humanoid" ones that are just as big as Heavy mechs that carry more armor and more weaponry and move almost as fast. Medium viability is extremely limited in top competitive play. Although yes, months ago you could jumpsnipe with a treb, try jumpsniping with a treb against a team of quality jumpsniping Highlanders which weren't around back then. You guys know this, because now you guys stack jumpsniping Highlanders just like everyone else does.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 13 October 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

I love my mediums. I play a BJ-1, BJ-3, HBK-4G, and YLW. I have also mastered almost all the Hunchies. I have mastered all the Cents. The only reason I don't play them anymore is because I wanted the cbills and sold them. And I regret that deeply. Mediums are viable but you can't go lone ranger, you have to got in twos or more. Although my BJ-1 does kill most heavies by itself. I mean how could you not love an AC/20, 3 Mls, full JJs and 90+ kph.

Edited by MonkeyDCecil, 13 October 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

MonkeyDCecil, on 13 October 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

I mean how could you not love an AC/20, 3 Mls, full JJs and 90+ kph.

I had to log back in just to contest the absurdity of this by stating one simple fact. If you run a mech like this, due to your hitbox and no lag shield, 2 alphas and you're dead. No body so far will touch the fact mediums have the worst defense in the game with zero benefits for it. When you play a medium, you expect to spend half the match hiding behind people, or you're the first to die. Lights can scout, heavies+ can brawl and snipe... mediums are the fodder. With the Saber package coming out Tuesday, we are going to see more Mediums played, and more complaints on the forum.

I'm just ahead of the curve as usual.

Edited by lockwoodx, 13 October 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[Taemien]

Snowcrow, on 13 October 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

They will be viable when tonnage limits are in the game.

This is false. Tonnage limits just means 4-6 people per match are fodder for the 18-20 others.

[SilentWolff]

PEEFsmash, on 13 October 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Well you aren't getting it. Nobody is arguing that the Cicada needs to be buffed, they are arguing that many medium mechs aren't as good as many Heavy and Assault mechs, in particular the "humanoid" ones that are just as big as Heavy mechs that carry more armor and more weaponry and move almost as fast. Medium viability is extremely limited in top competitive play. Although yes, months ago you could jumpsnipe with a treb, try jumpsniping with a treb against a team of quality jumpsniping Highlanders which weren't around back then. You guys know this, because now you guys stack jumpsniping Highlanders just like everyone else does.

You arent getting it. The post was that mediums arent viable. No one talked about buffing cicadas but you and I have no idea what that comment even has to do with this conversation.
Of course mediums arent as good as heavy and assualt mechs when it comes to firepower, how could they be? Hence why you dont play them like a assaults or heavies to be effective.

I have to laugh about your comment on "top end" play as well. First off, the percentage of people that play "top end" is very very small. Secondly, "top end" play is a misnomer, with no weight restrictions. As you mentioned, its just a bunch of pop sniping highlanders and 3D's. Thats not top end play. Talk to me again when weight restrictions are in and these "top end" teams cant all take assaults and heavies and they have to actually put some thought into their mech loadouts.

[Deathlike]

Medium mechs are usable.

However, most of them are simply not viable for competitive play.

Let's just consider a classic, the Hunchback-4P.

I'm sure some of you are excellent at protecting the RT. It's the bane of its existence.

It doesn't take too much to neuter that mech... even if you do everything right. Most mechs will identify and expose its weakness... it doesn't take too much effort to accomplish that.

Same could be said for the YLW. In PUG play, some people would not take the effort to neuter the AC20 arm of the mech... you won't always be able to get away with that in 12-mans.

If the mech is easy to disable (outside of lights, since they are usually fielded), it is not really viable. Usable? Yes. Viable? Probably not.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 October 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[Wispsy]

Snowcrow, on 13 October 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

They will be viable when tonnage limits are in the game.

flawed logic....you mean more people will be forced to be cannon fodder with tonnage limits in play.