9 replies to this topic

[Capn Cat]

Just had a game of Assault on HPG Manifold. My team wandered around the centre for a while with no sign of enemy before trickling in to the base area to cap due to of lack of targets.

Turn out the other team stayed in their base area, and picked us off as we entered the two choke point entries to either side of the capture point.

Now some would say this is good tactics, forcing the other team into a situation which is to your advantange. Where it becomes concerning however is that if both teams use these tactics it becomes a game breaker. The attacking team will always be at a disadvantage coming through those gateways and no amount of good play or teamwork will overcome that.

My guess is those choke points were put there as a fall-back point to make the game less one sided when there is one team on a storm, this is being misused.

Cheers for the great game!

Edited by cpncodpiece, 24 December 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

Whats stopping you from doing this on every other map? Other than possibly the high walls preventing sniper fire.

On conquest you can just camp the center and win via points, but then the problem is that charging into a team camping the center usually results in a shooting gallery....

[Grendel408]

cpncodpiece, on 24 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Now some would say this is good tactics, forcing the other team into a situation which is to your advantange. Where it becomes concerning however is that if both teams use these tactics it becomes a game breaker. The attacking team will always be at a disadvantage coming through those gateways and no amount of good play or teamwork will overcome that.

Tactics are tactics.... you don't have to like them if they work against you, you'll hate them. That's why you have to find a counter-tactic, because it's all about tactics in a tactical-thinking-person's-shooter that MWO claims to be... Maybe they should have called this MWOT (MWO:Tactics)

Edited by Grendel408, 24 December 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Nightcrept]

There is a difference between tactics and a game breaking tactic caused by game design.

In this case what the map creates is a insurmountable bottle neck that can allow one team to concentrate maximum firepower with minimal risk and no counter.

Hopefully most teams are not going to lower themselves to the level of using this tactic. However if they did at least it would force the devs to fix the map.

[Grendel408]

Nightcrept, on 24 December 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

There is a difference between tactics and a game breaking tactic caused by game design.

In this case what the map creates is a insurmountable bottle neck that can allow one team to concentrate maximum firepower with minimal risk and no counter.

So, the little mountain pass in Crimson Straight can be an insurmountable bottle neck as well, if the team holding the area can coordinate the defense properly. Again... tactics. Just like the little lone scout Mech that runs and hides on Conquest, ever think that maybe his teammates instructed him/her to run-down the clock for victory versus running head-on into the enemy team to give them an easy victory? Tactics... use them... or lose in battle.

[Bront]

Since you're not forced to go though there, it's hardly insurmountable. Since both teams can do it, it's not uneven. Also, there are a few ways over the walls if you have the right mechs.

[ShinVector]

cpncodpiece, on 24 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Just had a game of Assault on HPG Manifold. My team wandered around the centre for a while with no sign of enemy before trickling in to the base area to cap due to of lack of targets.

Turn out the other team stayed in their base area, and picked us off as we entered the two choke point entries to either side of the capture point.

Now some would say this is good tactics, forcing the other team into a situation which is to your advantange. Where it becomes concerning however is that if both teams use these tactics it becomes a game breaker. The attacking team will always be at a disadvantage coming through those gateways and no amount of good play or teamwork will overcome that.

My guess is those choke points were put there as a fall-back point to make the game less one sided when there is one team on a storm, this is being misused.

Cheers for the great game!

What is stopping you from killing 1 of them and doing the same thing ?
Doh!! Don't call lack of intelligence gathering 'game breaking'...

Also there are 2 entrances and additionally some mechs can climb over the wall.. Doh...

[Caboose30]

cpncodpiece, on 24 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Just had a game of Assault on HPG Manifold. My team wandered around the centre for a while with no sign of enemy before trickling in to the base area to cap due to of lack of targets.

Turn out the other team stayed in their base area, and picked us off as we entered the two choke point entries to either side of the capture point.

Now some would say this is good tactics, forcing the other team into a situation which is to your advantange. Where it becomes concerning however is that if both teams use these tactics it becomes a game breaker. The attacking team will always be at a disadvantage coming through those gateways and no amount of good play or teamwork will overcome that.

My guess is those choke points were put there as a fall-back point to make the game less one sided when there is one team on a storm, this is being misused.

Cheers for the great game!

So I would have someone with the Artillery or Air strike to lean around the corner and launch it. That would break them up, and in the confusion you could enter and start firing.

[Modo44]

Bront, on 24 December 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Since you're not forced to go though there, it's hardly insurmountable. Since both teams can do it, it's not uneven.

The fact that both teams can do the same is an issue, not an asset here. This is game theory 101: If OP is right that holding the spawn area is optimal strategy (clearly better odds than moving out), both teams should camp there because pushing is predictably worse. That would lead to a draw being the optimized outcome. If you thought the Carrylander was boring...

The question is, can that defense be broken with 50/50-ish odds assuming similar teams, or is it really always advantageous to the camping team? "Both teams can do it" does not solve anything.

[Nightcrept]

Grendel408, on 24 December 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

So, the little mountain pass in Crimson Straight can be an insurmountable bottle neck as well, if the team holding the area can coordinate the defense properly. Again... tactics. Just like the little lone scout Mech that runs and hides on Conquest, ever think that maybe his teammates instructed him/her to run-down the clock for victory versus running head-on into the enemy team to give them an easy victory? Tactics... use them... or lose in battle.

There is no other map area that can properly relate to the op's tactic.

In no other place on any map that I can think of can you sit in a open area in mass and monitor a narrow opening while defending your base.

This is a perfect military situation akin to a killing box. You get to maximise firepower without the risk of the enemy being able to bring about enough of their own firepower to counter.