12 replies to this topic

[Livaria]

SRM's are simply one of my favorite weapons in any Mechwarrior game. There's nothing that feels more solid than a weapon that can combine good damage, heat and 270 range.

After playing with SRM's for a good amount of time I would like to point out something I've noticed while playing MechWarrior Online.

Unlike several other Mechwarrior titles (that I'm aware of). A standard SRM rack currently functions more like a shotgun that shoots rockets rather than being homing missiles on their own. I'm actually content with this either way since SRM's are still effective.

However this certainly can make SRMs somewhat difficult to aim. Unless if they are on a flexible arm mounted hard-point like a Commando.

Streak SRM's are popular for this very reason. One weapon that is almost entirely obsolete in every way is the SRM 2 + Artemis and It does makes sense... why settle for anything that has the possibility of missing it's target, weighs half a ton more, and does less damage per missile? The only drawback would be the S-SRM's suceptibility to Guardian ECM. (Which can be overcome in some circumstances.)

So I came up with this interesting idea that can take off in several directions if it were implemented in-game. I think that it could be worth testing and overall could be a vital feature towards missile accuracy and effectiveness.




A simplified explanation:

Missile Lock-on

Currently there are two types of aiming reticules, there is one that controls your torso weapons (+) and one that control your arm weapons (o). What some of you have probably figured out is that there is a 3rd invisible controlling property and that is your mouse cursor.

This cursor can become a 3rd targeting tool dedicated to missile guidance. When you mouse-over a 'mech (While having it targeted) It will begin registering a lock-on. So you don't have to stare at the 'mech with your front torso facing it.

Some 'mechs are already capable of doing this to *some* extent by targeting 'mechs with their 360 degree rotating arms. But other 'mechs like the Catapult won't have this luxury.


Additional Options:


(Artemis) SRM Guidance

I have another idea that also ties-in. (Artemis) Short Range Missiles's can be made more valuable if they can be launched in several directions that is guided by this cursor. The only thing that would change about SRM's is their ability to reach their intended target.

If such a thing were introduced in MWO. It would require a lot of changes to missiles, perhaps some balancing as well. So what would be are the differences beetween SRMs and Streaks if this feature were introduced?

- Streak SRMs will still function normally with a lock on required with an almost guaranteed registered hit.

- SRMs will also function normally but now can be aimed in more directions. While having better chances to hit, they can still miss outright.


(Artemis) LRM Guidance

This feature can be applied to LRMs as well. However this may change the some need for LRM locking and thus more likely to interfere with balancing systems in place but IT IS somthing to consider.

If LRMs could be manually guided I do imagine that this can be countered by simply having a 'mech hide behind cover and thus the Missile guidance is only able to guide LRMs into somthing like a cliff or a wall the mech is hiding behind. Tell me what you think about this.



Free Look Navigation

(Although some probably don't use this feature that is already in MWO, I consider this a very useful feature and I encourage that others try using this.)

To use this feature you must press and hold down the Left-Ctrl button.
You should be able to look around your cockpit and you may noticed your arm-weapons weapons will face in the direction that you are staring. (Assuming you have the right kind of arms.)

The missile guidance cursor will be pinned to the center of your screen. You will navigate this cursor by simply looking around through your cockpit view.

This means you will be able to guide your missiles just by having your pilot stare directly at it. It provides an optional toggle between missile guidance and dumb-fire. I consider this a simple yet manageable approach.

I made a short video to help you figure things out. I'm using annotations in this video. It displays the differences beetween free look and torso twist.



(If you notice the yellow square in the center of the screen it simulates what missile guidance would be like.)


Important things to remember:

-Missile trajectory could be aimed towards any direction in front of the mech regardless of where hardpoints are currently facing.

(On a side-note If balancing becomes an issue, then I have one suggestion that this feature be available to only Artemis equipped 'mechs. This can allow Artemis guidance to... guide Missiles and make it a more desirable and can directly influences how missiles are used in-game.)

- This feature would allow SRM's to be systematically more reliable without resorting to them being a true lock-on weapon like the LRM or Streak SRM.

- LRM/Streak lock-on would be more easier to accomplish by being able to move your cursor over your target.

This applies especially for 'mechs that have a lock-on disadvantage by having arms that can only rotate vertically [like the catapult] as opposed to 'mechs that have 360 degree movement [such as the Trebuchet.]

- If this mechanic is complex to manage for some players then a toggle ability can be implemented.



Visual Demonstration

*Now, feast your eyes on this Incredible Microsoft Paint Picture.*




This image depicts a view from a Cicada cockpit, pretend it's the Cicada X-5.

*And now another glorious MS paint picture!*


This picture will sort of give you an idea on what is intended.

Remember that this feature can be reworked in several ways to adapt to the gameplay.
It would be nice for some to take a look at this feature.

This all sounds like good practice to me, but I can never be sure for myself. The best way to find out is if it actually works.

Edited by Livaria, 29 December 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I like the idea, and I think including a modification to TAG would be nice.

So the idea is to make TAG mountable either like BAP or ECM (having a separate preset hardpoint) to be able to make that third crosshair visible by having the infrared targeting laser display where this third missile crosshair would be.

Then it would modify Artemis LRMs and SRMs, and Streaks for Targeting with the Lock On crosshair.

And ALRMs and ASRMs can still be dumb-fired, with Streaks requiring the sustained Lock On. It would be nice to see if that can be tested out.

[Livaria]

That's not a terrible idea.

So that would mean introducing a Tag specific hard-point would be a pretty good balancing feature concerning 'mech variants that would otherwise sacrifice damage for a tag. And It would also make a pretty convenient toggle between whether you want guide them or not.

That's actually pretty well planned out mind you. It sounds like you had ideas beforehand.

Still, I like it.

Edited by Livaria, 23 December 2013 - 04:48 AM.

[Lightfoot]

I think it adds too much complexity. Most of it would need to be automated just because players are being asked to control alot already. Two reticules, a movement axis and a rotation axis, 3-4 weapon groups on average. Numerous subsystems. SRMs are supposed to be dumbfired and work fairly well if they hit.

Now maybe the Clans will introduce a Targeting Computer that could place a lead reticule for SRMs. Since this is TT Canon/ Battletech Lore-based equipment, you might have better chances for success by going this route.

GL&GH

[Livaria]

Thank you, I haven't had any criticism in a while.

While I suppose may add *some* complexity it doesn't seem overwhelming to me. Considering people are using arm-mounted hard points in the same way I still think it's manageable.

But a part of me does understand, if it becomes an issue perhaps some fixes can be thought of.

This is originally intended to address the issue of Artemis guided SRM's which currently appears to have less value than most missile systems. Perhaps Artemis can allow that lead reticule you mentioned if complexity turns out to be an issue.

As far as cannon goes It's mostly just a matter of deciding how much you want to adhere to. So it's only a partial concern of mine. Right now, I prioritize game play rather than cannon.

I'll think about it.

Edited by Livaria, 24 December 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[Phantomime]

Current Artemis just reduced the spread on the missiles.. you could make it more like SSRM's where they lock, leadfire, shoot, but once they are out go streight and miss if the target jukes.

the idea of a 3rd cursor is a bit too cluttered, in the heat of combat, managing my torso weapons on 1 target and my arms on another I find profoundly difficult..

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Phantomime, on 24 December 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

the idea of a 3rd cursor is a bit too cluttered, in the heat of combat, managing my torso weapons on 1 target and my arms on another I find profoundly difficult..

It can be if the mouse is too sensitive. I'd recommend seeing if adjusting mouse settings in the Options menu help.

And I also use shift if I ever need to line up my torso and arms together (at least we I remember to press shift), so give that a shot too.

[Durant Carlyle]

Standard SRMs have always been unguided in the official MechWarrior games.

Streaks and LRMs have always been guided with a lock-on cursor.

This game is already doing them like they should be done.

[Livaria]

Durant Carlyle, on 25 December 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Standard SRMs have always been unguided in the official MechWarrior games.

Really? I'll have to confirm this for myself. Perhaps my memory of MechWarrior 3 isn't what it used to be.
http://youtu.be/9aJPzbeVbqQ?t=2m24s These SRM's look pretty guided to me.

In any case, I'm still not convinced that this idea should be dismissed. If your reason is BattleTech cannon, then I will point out that some weapons have been changed as opposed to Cannon. (This includes weapons like Autocannons and perhaps PPC's).

There's other 'mech features that would normally be a part of Cannon is also not a part of the game. It would normally take longer to aim any weapon as pilots would take a few seconds have to adjust direct-fire weapons to converge correctly.

This has all been either neglected or changed likely for gameplay purposes.

Edited by Livaria, 26 December 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[Skyfaller]

I love your idea OP.

About this system requiring a TAG or Artemis...

TAG makes no sense since if you have to TAG it then this system would almost literally have the same limitations as it currently has. Aka if the missiles follow the TAG beam that means the missiles still fly in the same path as they would to begin with. You lose lock when target leaves LOS... and if you can't TAG them it means they're also out of LOS. More importantly, the TAG can't guide the missile flight behind cover objects since it too is limited by LOS.

Linking it to Artemis system doesn't make sense either. Artemis packs the missiles closer together when there is LOS so if you give artemis an out-of-los guidance then you end up with Artemis being too overpowered (tighter missile spread+manual missile guidance when there is LOS...and manual missile guidance when there isnt LOS).

A third option:

You have described here is essentially the ARROW system. Well, sort of. Its a device that enables the missiles to become artillery via indirect fire or artillery through manual guidance (be them LRM or SRM).

I would propose this system to be a mech upgrade just like Artemis is. Make it cost: Head slot + 15k GXP Pilot skill (no module required, just the pilot needs to be 'trained' to use the system so aka, pilot skill) + Double C-Bill cost for Ammo.

A balancing 'con' is that the missiles fired under ARROW are SLOWER than current missiles. About 25% slower.

In the cockpit, the player should have an option to switch ARROW on and off. Get rid of the ridiculous missile bay door switch and replace it with Arrow On/Off. Under Arrow ON the third cursor (guidance) appears on the screen. Arrow OFF has the missiles functioning like they do now (LRM and SRM).

NARC should also function under ARROW guidance as well.

[Livaria]

Your ARROW suggestion seems good so far. I'll have to take a look into a few things that you mentioned and come to a conclusion about what you just said.

I'm not sure if tighter missile spread + manual guidance makes Artemis overpowered. But It's something that has to be tested.

My first priority is not concerned with balance. This is because a lot of things can be done to nerf or power a weapon and most importantly; balance systems are in the hands of PGI and not us. Letting PGI know what's available to them is about the best we can do.

Right now I mostly want to get as many ideas as I can. Then if possible, single out what is probably the best approach.

Edited by Livaria, 27 December 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Skyfaller]

It would make it overpowered because then one module is giving 2 very distinct abilities at once. You can't guide missiles to target if you have no LOS..and if you have LOS then artemis kicks in.

I will add one more thing to the ARROW guidance: It does not give a missile warning message. Missiles aren't homing so there's no warning to be had. That alone makes it a very attractive fire mode.

I do not like the concept of balancing the LRMs via damage/stats just because of one firing mode. LRMs as they are now have been quite nerfed thanks to the ghost heat... I would hate to see them lowered in damage just because people whine about them being manually guided.

[Livaria]

After thinking about your idea, I've decided to support it. I've noticed that one of the biggest reasons behind this concerns LRM guidance if it were added. Regardless, I will add ARROW to the poll.

So far I have two scenarios:

1. There is your option by introducing the ARROW upgrade. How it functions concerning things like weight or critical slots may take a little bit of work. But it's probably worth it.

It does however allow Artemis SRM's to be rarely used as they are now.

2. Removing the missile accuracy bonus Artemis currently provides and replacing it with manual missile guidance.

This Is another idea wouldn't entirely be opposed to. TAG, NARC, or a new device can probably subsitute it's role it has in missile accuracy.

Edited by Livaria, 29 December 2013 - 03:07 PM.