16 replies to this topic

[Wilhelm Fraek]

Right now im finding little reason to use energy over ballistics, rof,heat, range many things that favour ballistic and lets face it ammo hasnt been a problem yet when you stack 3 of the same weapon its pretty easy to put 4-5 tons of ammo with it.

What i propose is that ammo must be placed adjacent to ballistic weapons or within the same area(arm,torso,shoulder) this not only limits boating but could also be used for energy weapons heat sinks placed with or beside energy weapons receive a lower heat output or faster dissipation.

It doesnt make a whole lot of sense that ammo placed in the legs can make it to the shoulder or arm.


So thoughts on this are?

Dont just complain or criticise without a counter point or if you have a better way of implementation.


The reason I and putting this out there is most of the mechs Im seeing now are gun boats(jaeger,cata) have seen a few energy but those are mostly stalkers.

[Redda]

Not a terrible point, but, in my Phract with an ac/20, if I had to store ammo in the torso I could carry 1 ton. Food for thought.

[Chowda]

Redda, on 01 October 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Not a terrible point, but, in my Phract with an ac/20, if I had to store ammo in the torso I could carry 1 ton. Food for thought.

The Yen-lo would carry 0 with the AC-20. I could see adjacent areas. Not much of a difference, but then the ammo would have to go in the torso's for AC-40 Jaegers.

[Wilhelm Fraek]

I never played the old BT and maybe a few games of the old mechwarrior when i was a kid so I dont know how or if there was any specific way they did it.

How was it done in battle tech?

maybe do something like the engines where it has internal compartments where you can place ammo? internal storage depending on the gun the heaviest being the ac/20 could have say 2 tones for each gun? internaly mind you and if there was still room adjacent storage.

[LauLiao]

What qualifies as adjacent? Are the legs adjacent to the side torsos? Center torso? Nothing? How about the head? Adjacent to CT only? or Side torsos as well?

[Sug]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 01 October 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

How was it done in battle tech?

On stock mechs ammo was typically placed in the torsos. Not sure if there were any stock mechs with ammo in the legs but custom mech rules allowed ammo to be placed anywhere.

[Wilhelm Fraek]

LauLiao, on 01 October 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

What qualifies as adjacent? Are the legs adjacent to the side torsos? Center torso? Nothing? How about the head? Adjacent to CT only? or Side torsos as well?

my smart *** meter is ticking, adjacent to the weapon that requires the ammunition, I realise this is the future and all but i would find it hard to believe that they would store ammo in the legs to have it brought up via some sort of conveyor system past all the internals/hydraulics and other core systems, then to some how travel down the arm into the chamber and repeat. not only could a number of things go wrong with this system(jams,feed problems) its not efficient. to me it makes more sense for the devs to place a certain amount of internal storage depending on the weapon for ammunition, if that still isnt enough an adjacent place would serve for reloads.

(arm mounted)<-shoulder
arm->(shoulder mounted)<-torso
(Torso mounted)<-shoulder or slots within the torso

(even if this is above the legs it still wouldnt work as the the legs can move freely of the torso and you would have to align the feed track every time you wanted to reload from this area)

[Balafore]

As far as I'm aware there are no official construction rules forbidding ammo from being where ever you felt like putting it for table top. Comes down to house rules really when using custom mechs (we usually played stock)

[RandomLurker]

Just because energy weapons have been nerfed into the ground (debateable- lasers are actually my favorite weapon) Nerfing ballistics down with them is not the solution. And a nerf it would be- it means that an AC/20 could only be used on mechs with torso mounts, and even then only 2 tons of ammo could be used. It would thus invalidate many stock variants and also the Hero Yen-Lo-Wang. It's just a bad idea.

[Wilhelm Fraek]

I know its not a fool proof idea I dont really think of this as a nerf as the weapons themselves do not change it just means people wont be stacking weapons and ammo like they do now. smart place and selection would be required if they want to have enough ammo.

The stock Yen lo wang is an example of what im talking about adjacent ammo, the ac/20 is located in the right arm and the ammo is located in the adjacent area in this case the right torso.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab#i=45&l=stock

Now with at little fiddling around we have (pretend with me here) 2 tons (14rnds) onboard the gun its self, I am also able to equipe another 4 tons (28rnds) in the adjacent torso giving me a whopping 42 rnds for the ac/20 this plus the 2 medium lasers mounted on the torso. we were also able to throw in an xl 300.

YEN-LO-WANG

so it doesnt limit your choices at all if anything it guarantees you a certain amount of ammo with what ever ballistic weapon you pick.

[Wilhelm Fraek]

Weapon name-----|--- Stock Ammunition--| -----Onboard ammo

AC/20-------------------1t= 7 rnds--------------------2t= 14 rnds

Gauss-------------------1t= 10 rnds------------------2t= 20 rnds

AC/10-------------------1t= 15 rnds-------------------2t= 30 rnds

LBX/10------------------1t= 15 rnds-------------------2t= 30 rnds

Ult-AC/5-----------------1t= 30 rnds-------------------3t= 90 rnds

AC/5----------------------1t= 30 rnds-------------------3t= 90 rnds

AC/2-----------------------1t= 75 rnds------------------4t= 400 rnds

Machine gun-------------1t= 2000 rnds--------------6t= 12000 rnds

The only thing I can see this doing is allowing you add more heat sinks/armour and weapons themselves.

if you want to change the numbers go ahead I just think a system like this maybe not even the adjacent idea, but the idea of onboard ammo. This just means you have up to 6 tons of free space(machine gun) thats 6 more double heat sinks or 6 tons of ammo it gives you an option.


Also another thought maybe do it another way internal heat sinks on each limb not just the engine?

Edited by Wilhelm Fraek, 02 October 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[Wilhelm Fraek]

does anyone else have any other ideas or thoughts on this? slightly interested to know if all BT was played with just stocks mechs or was their customization?

[Squid von Torgar]

I think that provided ammo isnt placed in the legs it can be placed anywhere.

[Balafore]

Read through my copy of Master Rules and based of the construction rules, there are no restrictions on where you can place ammo. Worth noting though is that (U)AC20's and mech based artillery critical slots can be split between 2 adjacent locations with the weapons firing arc being whichever is the most restrictive.

Wilhelm Fraek, on 02 October 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

does anyone else have any other ideas or thoughts on this? slightly interested to know if all BT was played with just stocks mechs or was their customization?

Depends really. In my experience playing table top we mostly played pickup games using stock or very slightly modified variants (dropping the MGuns and small laser from the Timberwolf Prime and adding more heatsinks for example). Playing in a campaign setting you have to remember that there is a cost associated with everything and that cost could be quite high when modifying standard Innersphere variants. Considering the campaigns took part in a certain time period and variants are generally balanced vs their respective era customizing mechs was more to give your mech a personal feeling rather than to make it "competitive".

In MWO we run into the problem of old era stock mechs vs new era stock mechs so dropping most costs and added flexibility to customize your chassis of choice is a requirement to keep all mechs viable.

Edited by Terrist, 02 October 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[KerenskysBlues]

I actually have thought about this too and really like the idea. You could also do something where the weapon itself could have a slot built into it that allows for a ton or so of ammo. That would help alleviate some of the slot limiting issues. I just find it ridiculous that you can have an AC in your arm and the ammo in the leg.

That being said it does not bother me as much from a game play perspective. To a certain extent I think the solution's already there for it, eg people would actually have to use CASE systems. But from a design and visual perspective it bothers me terribly.

[Stardancer01]

Mechs with hands should be able to place ammo crates/bins anywhere because they can just reach down and take a fresh clip out of a pocket. After all you have lost a critical slot for that hand why not use it.

Mechs without hands should store their ammo in the section or nearest adjacent section.

[Fuzzbox]

OP: As it should be according to TT.

Currently people are putting the ammo in
1) legs
2) head if your head goes your dead, right?
3) center torso, if it's gone you are gone?

Right now, the ammo explosions are few and far between, but if they started to happen like in TT, people would start aiming for the legs, and we would be back to the legging issue that we have seen in many games.

I would like for crits and to mean more, but I don't see this happening with a lot of other complications.

Edited by Ingrid, 28 December 2013 - 09:58 AM.