34 replies to this topic

[Alex Warden]

nemesis271989, on 28 December 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Do they generate more heat?

not really... since they are "more advanced", for example CERLL deal more damage, have slightly more range, but still generate the same ammount of heat, more than a standard LL for sure, but not more than an IS ERLL... same for ERPPC...

but as someone stated above, Clans don´t have standard Weapons, so they don´t have the choise to mix up with lower heat weapons like the IS can do ...

Edited by Alex Warden, 28 December 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

There is a list here: http://www.sarna.net...s_and_Equipment

From those numbers I tried out how they could be setup with MWO (so it's all theoretical):

Spoiler

I wonder what the devs will do.

[Pariah Devalis]

I take issue with your Pulse Laser values, specifically. They do more damage than standard lasers (or ER as the case may be). So the SPLas should not be doing less than the ERSLas and the LPLas should not be doing the same damage as the ERLLas. If I was to guess, I would assume they would be looking at 5/8/12 respectively, with the adjustment that Clan ERSLas does 4 damage, not 5.

Also, your clan ERPPC is lacking the extended range over the IS version.

Looking at your lists closer, it looks like you had a formatting error with the energy weapons, as well. Double ERPPC entries and entries for non-ER Clan lasers (they do not have those whatsoever).

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 29 December 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

With the weapons I tried to go back more BT values in making those tables, then tweak from there. I also left in the regular Laser versions with the Clans if we would have more than just Clan Omni's that could have kept the older weapons, and I've read that some Clan mechs, dropships and defenses kept using older tech in the Clans since they were not front line units and they kept using equipment until it was lost or destroyed from what I understand so far.

So that all depends on what the devs choose to implement. And I'd need to double check more sources to see what wasn't available to the clans.

WIth the ranges, I took the BT long range value and multiplied by 30 to get the distance translation to MWO Meters. The range adjustments we have in MWO I don't like as I've been learning more about BT. So, I'd have preferred that the hex multiplier was adjusted from 30 to maybe 35 or 40 instead for example, to make weapons ranges more realistic and keep the range differences between all of the different weapons available.

So if the devs want, they can easily use the adjusted MWO values that I did not include in those tables. I have no problem with making the changes you mention, I just have been preferring a different approach to implementing the values into MWO.

Then Sarna has IS and Clan ERPPC having a long range of 23 hexes each, with the differences being damage, tons and crits, which is why I kept that in the tables.

Also, I should have given a better explanation of the double entries, there are variants that are setup as current weapons, firing one shot per trigger pull, and I also have separate variants that fire a burst per trigger pull, That I want see how they could work in comparison; I'd really like to try them out on the Test server at least.

[Mahpsy]

What ever the values are gona be I don't care to much. I just want the clan weapons available to my lights so they can pack some more weapons...

I'm looking at you Locust.

[MeiSooHaityu]

We will have to wait and see how the weapons are balanced, but I'm not going to lie, the Clan ballistics have me nervous a bit. Ultra A/C10s and A/C20s...whew. SSRM6s and SSRM4s will be a bit of a SOB too.

I'm not going to go crazy or anthing (especially because I don't know what PGI has planned for implimentation yet), but it is a bit worrysome anyway.

[hashinshin]

You know the thing everyone forgets, clans are the grey knights of battletech.

They're bigger, more damaging, with higher tech, more tankiness, more stats everywhere. In return they cost a considerable sum more points to place on the field. A 75 ton mad cat is more points than a 100 ton atlas by like 20% or some such. A clan 100 ton mech goes up against like 4 50 ton IS mechs.

Adding Clans to the game just feels ... odd. It'd be like making a Warhammer 40k MMO and space marines are on par with imperial guard. Or that a Eldar is only as good as an ork.

[Helbrecht]

ya clan weapons in this Timeline are good the IS weapons that come after the clan war are better.
clans dont really get alot of new weapons they get ATM's and HAGs in thier level 3 tech tree with the Heavy class of lasers (Heavy Large Lasers) etc etc.

The IS on the other hand gets

Heavy PPC
Light PPC
Snub Nosed PPC
MML (Mixed Missle Launcher)
Rotary A/C 5
Rotary A/C 2
Light Guass Rifle
Heavy Guass Rifle
Silver Bullet Guass Rifle
Large X-Pulse Laser
Medium X-Pulse Laser
Small X-Pulse Laser
Thunder Bolt Missles 5/10/15

Didn't mention Tech 2 upgrades Ultras and SSRms lbx since thier a given or the simple tech upgrades (Light XL Engines) etc

Thiers more but thier very gimicky (Variable Speed Pulse Laser) it for this reason i hope they dont alow mix-teching or they reverse clan mechs being used by IS give each faction thier flavor.

Edited by Helbrecht, 03 January 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Escef]

Helbrecht, on 03 January 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

ya clan weapons in this Timeline are good the IS weapons that come after the clan war are better.
clans dont really get alot of new weapons they get ATM's and HAGs in thier level 3 tech tree with the Heavy class of lasers (Heavy Large Lasers) etc etc.

The IS on the other hand gets

Heavy PPC
Light PPC
Snub Nosed PPC
MML (Mixed Missle Launcher)
Rotary A/C 5
Rotary A/C 2
Light Guass Rifle
Heavy Guass Rifle
Silver Bullet Guass Rifle
Large X-Pulse Laser
Medium X-Pulse Laser
Small X-Pulse Laser
Thunder Bolt Missles 5/10/15

Didn't mention Tech 2 upgrades Ultras and SSRms lbx since thier a given or the simple tech upgrades (Light XL Engines) etc

Thiers more but thier very gimicky (Variable Speed Pulse Laser) it for this reason i hope they dont alow mix-teching or they reverse clan mechs being used by IS give each faction thier flavor.

YOu seem to be mixing up the old tech levelI, II, III stuff. Currently in TT rules, tech levels are Introductory (the old level I), Tournament (the old level II), Advanced (some level III), and Experimental (the rest of level III).

Your IS lest is all Tournament level stuff until you hit the Silver Bullet Gauss. The X-pulses are Experimental, Thunderbolt Launchers are Advanced, and I don't recall the Gauss off the top of my head.

Clan side, ATMs, Hevy Lasers, and HAGs are Tournament level. The clans do get some Advanced and Experimental gear, though. Streak LRMs, ER Pulse Lasers, Improved Heavy Lasers, Watchdog Electronic Warfare System, and a few others.

[Helbrecht]

your correct about thie differences in the rulesets. i just chose not to include it cause most people would'nt know wtf we were talking about. i choose to simplify it for those who are not BT nerds like you and i .

[Revya21]

CYBRN4CR, on 28 December 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

Lasers:
ER (S,M,L)
Pulse (S,M,L)

Energy Ballistics:
ERPPC

Ballistics:
LBX (2,5,10,20)
Ultra (2,5,10,20)
Gauss
MG

Missiles:
LRM (5,10,15,20)
SRM (2,4,6)
Streak (2,4,6)

Utility:
TAG
Narc
AMS
Flamer

Equipment:
Targeting Computer
ECM
BAP
Artemis

You forgot the LAMS

[Revya21]

CYBRN4CR, on 03 January 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

I only chose tournament legal equipment and what is guaranteed to show up for a minimum baseline for people to expect to be in MWO. LAMS is listed as experimental tech for the time period even if it was produced by 3048 so it might be included, but I don't expect it to be.

Cheers.

Ah. I understand. Thank you for clarifying its been years since I played TT.

[luxebo]

Whatzituyah, on 28 December 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Hmmm...
What about Clan LAMS though "Laser Anti Missle System"

ATM's are Advanced Tactical Missiles.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Lets not forget that the Clans use "no minimum range" LRM's and there streaks can still be dumb fired without a lock. This equates to effectively never being able to charge any Clan mech that has LRM's. (to get inside there launch range.) Even having ECM on an IS Mech would not save it from enemy streaks as they would just direct fire them.

Brings a completely different type of tactic to approaching any of the Clan Mech's, If you close on them, they don't lose any of there targeting/firing abilities.

Just something to think about as we wait for more info on the current release builds and what there load-outs will be.

As a note: From Lore/novels, the Clans never liked to use Arty in engagements and preferred to have there Aerospace fighters do that type of work, more one on one. Now the Inner Sphere used Arty to great advantage against the Clans but were deemed by the Clans to be honourless when employing it.

Edit: The reference to firing streaks without lock was from only two games and not lore or Canon.
[MW2 and MW:LL]

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 06 January 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[Escef]

9erRed, on 06 January 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

... [clan] streaks can still be dumb fired without a lock.

[Citation Needed]