28 replies to this topic

[RedDragon]

Werewolf486, on 30 December 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

PGI has admitted behind the scenes that their weapons management system is bad and handcuffed them into ghost heat for a band-aid fix. That being said, they've also stated to change it would rip the guts out of the game as it stands and would require a reword from the ground up. I don't really believe that, but it's what I've been told.

As for reboot of Online. Start the entire thing at the Exodus and have split servers no clan and inner sphere intermingling until it's time. Go through the wars and lore until 3050 and then start the invasion! Both sides get what they want, both sides play the lore of Clan vs. Clan and IS vs IS and then the Clans make their move. Have a single player missions based game with episodes and co-op missions for lances and 12 mans to complete (novel idea). Umm...make a game instead of a money grab.

Create an app based BT game like Mech Commander and one that's more like an FPS. Have story lines with them and missions (novel idea) and that would interest more people to play

As for the plausibility of LosTech in BT: See, reading comprehension seems to be LosTech even today. One may only dread the skills humankind loses over the next 1000 years...

[Victor Morson]

CyclonerM, on 29 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

First: i would not.

Second: Yes, start from the MWO hardpoint system. Scrap it, then start again.

But i would say keep Battletech as it is. It worked for 30 years..

Clearly it went off the rails right around the FedCom civil war, though; the fluff went continually downhill in the middle of it, hitting new lows with everything Jihad related.

It's doubly infuriating because the Jihad went through years of setup of having the FWL as a puppet state and such, only for them to just go with "Woops, secret fleet that somehow can bring the IS to ti's knees." Ugh.

This is also the time we started getting hilarious protomechs and battle armor that looks like giant metal dogs and carry lunches in their mouth...

How would I reboot it?

Simple: By not doing a FULL reboot, at least not completely.

I'd start the new universe at the dawn of the Clan invasion (so that everyone is represented), and include a timeline streamlining that basically keeps the major events of the universe up to 3049 or so, then start over fresh from there. The 'mechs that were good could be reintroduced from that point, and the hilariously bad stuff could be completely forgotten about. Everyone wins.

Major differences this time:
- No GDL Datacore is ever found, the IS tier 1.5 'mechs don't happen until after the invasion.

- White hats dirtied: Characters like Victor Davion are far more willing to play dirty pool, and are far more self-serving.

- Black hats made gray: Characters like Katrina need to be given motivation to, in their eyes, do the right thing and not just be EVIIIIIL

- Removed plot armor from major characters: To be entirely honest, there's several characters I would kill in a new timeline, including Victor Davion; and probably by Combine hardliners because that whole "walking all over the cornerstone of their culture to no consequence" thing was stupid. This would also be the end of the "2nd generation" of characters always leading every battle from the front.

- Clans alien honor system maintained: The Clans were not supposed to be Kilngons and not supposed to go HONOR HONOR HONOR all the time. Their sense of honor was strange at first and their way of thinking was alien. Much of what made them special faded rapidly after this point.

- The Word of Blake are puppetmasters, not the super crack commando squad: By the time anything resembling the Jihad rolls around, this time, it would be them manipulating the now strongest, untouched by war house to launch an invasion against their weakened neighbors. The original plot was setup to make this possible so I don't know WTF. Likewise I'd rather make their wealth buy off Outreach's mercenary forces, resulting in the rest of the IS assaulting Outreach instead of the stupid "Battletech 9/11" attempt.

- Dark Ages entirely ignored as canon to repeat from this point.

- A huge emphasis on salvage and equipment shortages brought back. BattleTech started out as a mix of Rome and Road Warrior, and Dark Ages failed to bring the vibe back because of it's stupid reasoning. Make some repair parts as rare as a full 'mech and make the only way to resupply in scenarios to be salvaging them off fallen 'mechs, and the like. After 3050 in the current universe it felt like way too many new parts/mechs were out there.

- Last but not least, TT needs a major rules revamp. Dark Ages went to way too much of an extreme and alienated classic players, but seriously the whole thing is VERY dated and needs to get a ground up revamp. A lot could be taken from what we've learned from MW games even: Setting up "firing groups" and rolling shots together is just one example of how I think you could resolve combat much faster.

BattleTech is among the slowest wargames, doubly so with advanced rules.

[Escef]

Firstly, I wouldn't. But if I were given the job anyway, I'd do my best with it.

Game mechanics: would see a severe re-balancing. Intro-tech level ACs would be the first offenders dealt with. Lighter ACs would become even lighter and have their ranges drastically shortened, the big ACs would see a huge increase in range. The big ACs would probably gain some heat issues and lower shots per ton to balance things out. The only rel change to Star League tech would see a slight expansion of the LPL's range, and perhaps a slight tweak to the LB-10X. Inner Sphere tech would need to see some slight bumps as the timeline went on. Clan tech would need severe rebalancing work, energy weapons and LRMs being the primary offenders.

Lore: I'd slow down the time table for the FedCom Civil War and Jihad. I have no problems with either of these events, but they occur way too soon. The Jihad would also be triggered not by the dissolution of the new Star League, but by 1 or 2 Warden clans seeking membership.

[990Dreams]

Done. I have too much free time. So I re-wrote BT to match up with the real world (meaning that somethings are way buffed and some things are really different).

Well, I did some tech (thought up all of it, still writing it). The "articles" I wrote are more like short papers to give DARPA or the NSA or the DoD.

Here is a sample detailing TAG:

Spoiler

Target Acquisition Gear (TAG)
Overview
Target Acquisition Gear (TAG) is an advanced targeting device typically used by scout units and LRM boats. The TAG can obtain unconditional locks on a target and relay the information to all nearby units.
Function
The TAG unit works by firing an red-infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance and targeting systems of ally units and missiles.
Effect
The TAG is able to provide data to all units for targeting and can cause unguided missiles to re-route their path to the TAG's selected target. Advanced TIL (Target Identification and Logging) software can co-operate with a TAG laser to permanently lock the target, even after the beam has moved to another target (this only works if the enemy remains clear of it's ally's ECM field).
ECM
TAG is able to identify and lock on to targets that have ECM, although the unit can remain stealthy if the beam moves off of the said unit. TAG data can be relayed to units under ECM cover due to it's use of low-power infrared broadcasting instead of radio broadcasting.
Drawbacks
The TAG laser is a powerful weapon. However, should the beam move off of the target it will be like the TAG never even hit (this negative effect can be negated by advanced targeting software). The small red trace can be seen as a shimmer by the naked eye, but on infrared the TAG laser stands out like a normal Laser.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 05 January 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[BigO]

One of the crazy things about the timeline is that it was envisioned back in the 70's and 80's. The folks who were doing future tech back then had no real appreciation of what was going to happen a mere 20 years later, (and really, neither did most "future" games). So most of the stuff is based on advances in 80's tech, with a few real world military toys that came along later on (like TAG) tossed in for good measure.

As far as the lore goes,I'm content to let it lie, even the Dark Age stuff. Stories are stories and they help flesh out the world better than just numbers do.

As for the TT game, I'd consider streamlining/simplifying the units, so that it's easier to play larger games. A simple 4 - 4 matchup in current TT requires 4 mech sheets for each player, each mech must be kept track of individually,with damage allocated by a random system. If you can streamline that so that it's more abstract, you can handle larger groups with fewer errors.

Lets say that each unit has a defined point value, which includes a basic weapons and movement package. Upgrades can be purchased for additional points. Each unit has a simple hit point system, maybe tacking on a critical hit system to keep things interesting. Clan units would be more expensive, reflecting their superior technology, and could also be given hard rules regarding their particular code of combat.

Also, speaking to the TAG described above, TAG was TT version of a military laser designation system, and was used in conjunction with Arrow missile systems (semi-guided artillery) and later with Semi-guided LRMS (which became more accurate or more efficient. I forget which)

[990Dreams]

BigO, on 05 January 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Also, speaking to the TAG described above, TAG was TT version of a military laser designation system, and was used in conjunction with Arrow missile systems (semi-guided artillery) and later with Semi-guided LRMS (which became more accurate or more efficient. I forget which)

I know that it is a guidance system. But I took it 2 steps further and added target acquisition (hence the name Target Acquisition Gear) and logging. For a full functional description of TAG I'd need to couple that article with one about the actual targeting system.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 05 January 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[Skylarr]

DavidHurricane, on 05 January 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Done. I have too much free time. So I re-wrote BT to match up with the real world (meaning that somethings are way buffed and some things are really different).

Well, I did some tech (thought up all of it, still writing it). The "articles" I wrote are more like short papers to give DARPA or the NSA or the DoD.

Here is a sample detailing TAG:

Spoiler

Target Acquisition Gear (TAG)
Overview
Target Acquisition Gear (TAG) is an advanced targeting device typically used by scout units and LRM boats. The TAG can obtain unconditional locks on a target and relay the information to all nearby units.
Function
The TAG unit works by firing an red-infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance and targeting systems of ally units and missiles.
Effect
The TAG is able to provide data to all units for targeting and can cause unguided missiles to re-route their path to the TAG's selected target. Advanced TIL (Target Identification and Logging) software can co-operate with a TAG laser to permanently lock the target, even after the beam has moved to another target (this only works if the enemy remains clear of it's ally's ECM field).
ECM
TAG is able to identify and lock on to targets that have ECM, although the unit can remain stealthy if the beam moves off of the said unit. TAG data can be relayed to units under ECM cover due to it's use of low-power infrared broadcasting instead of radio broadcasting.
Drawbacks
The TAG laser is a powerful weapon. However, should the beam move off of the target it will be like the TAG never even hit (this negative effect can be negated by advanced targeting software). The small red trace can be seen as a shimmer by the naked eye, but on infrared the TAG laser stands out like a normal Laser.

We are talking about the BattleTech Universe (TT. Novels, Lore). What you have about is for MW:O.

[990Dreams]

Skylarr, on 05 January 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

We are talking about the BattleTech Universe (TT. Novels, Lore). What you have about is for MW:O.

Most of that was taken from Sarna.net. This is my description of an advanced tag that takes advantage of all technology available to humans.

DavidHurricane, on 05 January 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

I know that it is a guidance system. But I took it 2 steps further and added target acquisition (hence the name Target Acquisition Gear) and logging. For a full functional description of TAG I'd need to couple that article with one about the actual targeting system.

So you may be right, this isn't TAG. This is TAG II more like it. I got my reason for posting from this bit of text:

Ranek Blackstone, on 28 December 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Flipping through Sarna, and working a job where I have WAY too much free time on my hands, I had the strange thought of what could be done to rework BattleTech to bring it somewhat up to date with modern advancements in technology, and to close out some of the weird logic they used.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 05 January 2014 - 05:22 PM.