27 replies to this topic

[BillHones]

I have returned to play from a month break. Since the release of the original phoenix pack to the release of the saber pack, the current community that plays are rude, hardly communicate, and play like a$5 O's. This includes the sync drop groups. Veteran members should know the value of communication and include the others lances via chat. I always chat, whether I group drop or not. Is this the doing of the current weapon and mech meta? No need for others tactics but to jump in your highlander and ac20/10 dual ppc while the blob runs around and around the center of the map? There is too much greed and ignorance, that is the current meta.

[Ghogiel]

Nothing has changed in a month

[Ecto Cooler]

Welcome to the internet, OP. I hope you enjoy your stay!

[BillHones]

Ecto Cooler, on 30 December 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Welcome to the internet, OP. I hope you enjoy your stay!

BillHones, on 30 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

and ignorance

Via assumptions

[Threat Doc]

Bill, I don't entirely agree with you. When you're in a PUG, of course no one communicates, because until PGI builds in a voice program people will actually use and that is intrinsic to the game there won't be one everyone can be on. However, whenever I'm on TeamSpeak, and I use the NGNG server pretty much all the time, waiting for friends who really no longer show up, which IS rude, I have folks come by all the time and ask me to group up with them, and then we go and drop in-game and have a good old time. I have met very few truly rude people, and those I play with in PUGs are simply trying to get their game on. Does it **** me off the way they act, sometimes? Yes. But, then, I remember how, in just a couple of months, I will truly start working to rebuild AU, from the ground up, and I don't mind it quite as much. Besides, they help remind me that, when I begin to get angry, it's time to take a break.

[SmithMPBT]

Hop on over to World of Tanks and have your faith in the MWO community restored

[Threat Doc]

Hehe... my Brother-in-law plays WoT and he loves it. However, when I went to sit at his house on Thanksgiving and watched him play through six matches, ALL I could do was compare it, both vocally and in my own mind, to MWO. MWO is, far and away, far better than anything else I've seen and, once CW Phase three is up and running, and PGI can begin concentrating again on other things for MWO, that the population this game had will not only return, but it will triple. That's a pretty big number, but I think it might even go larger than that.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Well, my point of view is this... Most of the times I drop solo, I just want to pew pew big stompy robots. I don't have the energy to concentrate for chaotic pug matches 100% of the time. It is not about greed and ignorance. It's about not giving a ****. PUG-matches don't mean much to me so sorry I don't share your view. Besides trying to communicate by a buggy text chat is getting yourself killed.

I tend to smile when someone rages over the chat about bad teams and such... Boo hoo go find a unit and play 12-mans (and boohoo some more because you're getting your *** kicked still every time).

Dammm, this game has made me cynical!

[N0MAD]

Kay Wolf, on 30 December 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

once CW Phase three is up and running, and PGI can begin concentrating again on other things for MWO, that the population this game had will not only return, but it will triple. That's a pretty big number, but I think it might even go larger than that.

Can you pls look into that crystal ball of yours and tell us the Lotto numbers for next week. Thanks in advance,, but you already know i thanked you right?.

[BillHones]

IV Amen, on 30 December 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't have the energy to concentrate for chaotic pug matches 100% of the time.

"Many b7." Or "ddc e6." Or "7 left under ecm, lights flanking right." Phew...

SmithMPBT, on 30 December 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Hop on over to World of Tanks and have your faith in the MWO community restored

If both our games have 100 a$5 0's, and our pop is 1000 and wot is 3000000, who sees more a$5's? Worst part is its even in matches with veterans.

[Sandpit]

N0MAD, on 30 December 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Can you pls look into that crystal ball of yours and tell us the Lotto numbers for next week. Thanks in advance,, but you already know i thanked you right?.

Case in point op

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

BillHones, on 30 December 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

"Many b7." Or "ddc e6." Or "7 left under ecm, lights flanking right." Phew...

Like I said, most of the times writing to chat in the middle of engagement will get you killed. I write to chat about enemy movement when it is absolutely necessary, but only about stuff that really matter, which are none of the above examples. I assume people can read target info, look at the battlegrid and keep their eyes open. Of course sometimes they can't and it has nothing to do with communication.

[Threat Doc]

N0MAD, on 30 December 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Can you pls look into that crystal ball of yours and tell us the Lotto numbers for next week. Thanks in advance,, but you already know i thanked you right?.

Boy, don't I wish. Look, without trying to be a knight in white, I'm trying to remain as positive as possible about this game. Tonight, I ran with three other folks in a Lance and even though we died, A LOT, we had our moments, and those short moments more than made up for the frustration of the longer ones. We must have played about thirty matches, tonight, and I died through about twelve of those, and got ZERO freakin' kills -which, I assure you, is not normal for even ****-poor pilot me- until the last five games, where I got 1 in the third game before I stopped, and then 3 kills in the last game on my most hated map, HPG. The funny thing is, this was also the first time, in the twenty or so times I've played stupid HPG, that I was able to play my brawler K2... three kills is nothing to shake a stick at, at least not for me.

If I can keep a positive attitude through all the BS of getting killed a lot, and I still come out relatively on top by the end of a night, and I don't walk away pissed off, then maybe you can be a little more positive in how you feel about this game. There's not one damn thing you can do to change how this game is developing, anyway, so why give yourself, or heaven forbid someone else, heart ache? That's just like drinking a vile of poison and waiting for your enemy to die... it does no good.

IV Amen, on 30 December 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Like I said, most of the times writing to chat in the middle of engagement will get you killed. I write to chat about enemy movement when it is absolutely necessary, but only about stuff that really matter, which are none of the above examples. I assume people can read target info, look at the battlegrid and keep their eyes open. Of course sometimes they can't and it has nothing to do with communication.

I tend to find a little corner, or a place off to the side, out of the oppositions view, if possible, before I start writing something. You can't write while out in the middle of the battlefield, and you can't write accurately if you're trying to write quickly, but it can be done, and it's a lot more handy than looking at your mini.

Now, if we could just get more people to follow orders, right, wrong, or otherwise...

[Mystere]

As someone who has been playing solo all this time, more often than not I see players communicating via chat with simple commands similar to your samples. Others, I suspect, inspect targeting info as they become available and act accordingly. But from time to time, I still get those AHs you refer to. And those playing the "meta" (OMFG! I really hate that word!) get focused and dispatched quickly. I guess it all depends on your Elo, gaming schedule, and time zone.

Edited by Mystere, 30 December 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[Kaeseblock]

Played some games with great communication last night (good gameplan and movement orders written by good players and good information flow in general). They don't happen often, but they happen.
The problem is simple: Get attacked by the enemy while you type and you die. You really need time (even though it's just a few seconds) and good cover for typing. And these moments are rare once the fight has started

[Henry Morgan]

Kay Wolf, on 30 December 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Bill, I don't entirely agree with you. When you're in a PUG, of course no one communicates, because until PGI builds in a voice program people will actually use and that is intrinsic to the game there won't be one everyone can be on. However, whenever I'm on TeamSpeak, and I use the NGNG server pretty much all the time, waiting for friends who really no longer show up, which IS rude, I have folks come by all the time and ask me to group up with them, and then we go and drop in-game and have a good old time. I have met very few truly rude people, and those I play with in PUGs are simply trying to get their game on. Does it **** me off the way they act, sometimes? Yes. But, then, I remember how, in just a couple of months, I will truly start working to rebuild AU, from the ground up, and I don't mind it quite as much. Besides, they help remind me that, when I begin to get angry, it's time to take a break.

Just to the OP's point, I've noticed the time of day and certain days can see it be more than others. Right now there is a winter break for a large portion of the schools in the US, which probably adds to it. I'm not sure how much of a break schools give in other countries for comparison. I also play at more non-prime hours due to work and have noticed the player behavior quality can be different, at different times of the day.

As for the in-game voice, I do not think it is going to bring the 'team communication' harmony people like to claim it will. Will it help for some? Certainly. However it is just a tool, it is not a solution. Existing tools already are available as you mentioned yourself getting on a TeamSpeak server. You recognize it as it being a tool that can help your game play, and made the effort to do it. You found a tool that not only helps your ability to play the game, based on your play style, but also makes it more enjoyable for you.
I only bring up this point, because there are a vocal minority who like to hijack any mention of voice chat into their own agendas and their own axes to grind. I'm not saying this is you, but there are some who take the paranoia to an all new level, and find "evil pre-mades" using TeamSpeak behind every loss in a game. Even when there are none.

The problem I have, which ties to the OP's point, is PGI has not put any sort of player self-regulation ability in. Thus, players like the OP describes have no reason to change their behavior, as PGI has been kind enough to create an environment where people are forced to be exposed to them. They continue to be allowed to behave poorly, within an environment that caters to them by allowing them to hide behind anonymity and having a guaranteed audience forced to watch them every match. If you wish to play the game, PGI is basically forcing you to play with people you may not wish to.

In my opinion, PGI needs to implement an in-game ignore feature that allows players to self-regulate their in-game experiences. Not just an ignore that filters out the chat from a player, but also blocks future matches with that player. Over time, players who act poorly will find themselves facing the consequences of their actions, as they have longer and longer queue times to find people who actually want to play with them.

I bring up the ignore feature, because that has a direct impact for me if PGI ever does decide to integrate an in-game voice solution. Will it be a tool that can help some people? Yes. Will it also open the flood gates to the sewage already seen in chat to my speakers? Yes. If PGI is foolish enough to do something like this, while continuing to ignore the players ability to self-regulate, I suspect some players will just move on as the game has become nothing more than any other shooter game with just Mech skins over the avatars.

Another item with the in-game voice is that during some of the odd hours I play, I play with a lot of German and Russian speaking players. I don't speak either. They're comfortable in speaking their native language, and I don't expect them to speak English. But yet during these hours are some of the best matches I've had. Not because we're an "evil pre-made", or because we have some voice communication. But rather we all pay attention to what the team is doing, and react accordingly. I think the language difference actually helps in that aspect. No only is there no voice being used, but it also takes away the in-game text chat from us. Thus, we're all forced into paying more attention to the match, our surroundings and what our team mates are doing.

But back to the OP's original points:
I'd suggest waiting till winter break is over and see if it clears up a bit
Without any form of self-regulation available to the players, such behavior is only encouraged by game designers

[Henry Morgan]

Kaeseblock, on 30 December 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

The problem is simple: Get attacked by the enemy while you type and you die. You really need time (even though it's just a few seconds) and good cover for typing. And these moments are rare once the fight has started

But, just to play devils advocate, if your team is paying attention there shouldn't be that much to type. If you're being attacked, I'm hoping you're using the R-key and getting some target locks so your team can see the red arrow on the map. And, if there's more around you, they should be able to see the arrows via the HUD. That is, if they're paying attention. And if there's ECM around, the weapons fire should be enough for them to spot to see something is up. Unless, of course, you're so far away they can't see it, then you're out of position.

[Rhaythe]

I usually try to drop some kind of silly comment or whatever to at least attempt to engage my team. Generally speaking, if someone tries to communicate (by saying something more meaningful than SQUAWWWWK or 'Where Frodo?!'), then I've found the team is usually more receptive. If no one says anything, then yes, people will wander away on their own following whatever path seems best to them.

A phrase I'm starting to like more and more these days: "If you want things to change, then change something". If you don't like how your team is communicating and performing in PUGs, then try to change something about how that happens.

Of course, it doesn't always work. You'll get drops where no one cares or wants to respond, or worse, will actively go against anything you say. That's the internet for you.

BillHones, on 30 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

No need for others tactics but to jump in your highlander and ac20/10 dual ppc while the blob runs around and around the center of the map? There is too much greed and ignorance, that is the current meta.

That's how the rewards work right now. Do damage, get kills, get c-bills. Those new assaults aren't going to pay for themselves. Unfortunately, the way the reward system works in this game, it inspires the very passive "peek-a-boo" gameplay. Brawling, right now, is a lost art as it exposes you to too much damage.

It seems to come and go. Sniper gameplay gets old in any game, and I suspect it will here too. In all honesty, I haven't seen it too terribly much this month (did my ELO bottom out?). But it's a low-risk, high-reward play-style, so I doubt it'll ever go out of fashion entirely.

[Threat Doc]

Henry Morgan, on 31 December 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

As for the in-game voice, I do not think it is going to bring the 'team communication' harmony people like to claim it will. Will it help for some? Certainly. However it is just a tool, it is not a solution. Existing tools already are available as you mentioned yourself getting on a TeamSpeak server. You recognize it as it being a tool that can help your game play, and made the effort to do it. You found a tool that not only helps your ability to play the game, based on your play style, but also makes it more enjoyable for you.

Okay, but you will never satisfy all of the people all of the time. My point was that inborne voice commo would improve the game for a good many people a hundred fold, a good many more people than external sources do, now. There will, of course, be those people who will decry everything, and those people and units that will not use internal commo no matter what, nor should they be forced to. However, in-game commo means it's already there, all you have to do is check the box that you want to use it, or uncheck it if you don't; no set-up otherwise. PGI said, in the beginning, they wanted to put in-game commo so they could introduce things like static, cutting commo for particular hits, such as from PPCs, etc., for that immersion factor. To the best of my knowledge, this is something that remains on their list, but it's way at the bottom if it is still there.

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and find "evil pre-mades" using TeamSpeak behind every loss in a game. Even when there are none.

Agreed. You're right. I have blamed stupid {Scrap} for losses, before, but it's usually just the inability of a bunch of PUG buttheads to follow orders; in Conquest, for example, I try to get people to perform combat on their way in-between caps, "Fight between caps, ladies!" Unfortunately, there are those who will ONLY fight, no matter what, they end up dead, and then they blame evil pre-mades or something else ridiculous. I see it all the time.

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In my opinion, PGI needs to implement an in-game ignore feature that allows players to self-regulate their in-game experiences. Not just an ignore that filters out the chat from a player, but also blocks future matches with that player. Over time, players who act poorly will find themselves facing the consequences of their actions, as they have longer and longer queue times to find people who actually want to play with them.

I think you would find the opposite would happen; your ability to find a game would be gradually diminished. I consider the idiots I run into to be patience training, and rarely find one individual in a game to be so stupid that I wish I could *****-slap them into next year. Like the HPG map, which I despise with a passion, I still play it, and I play all of the game modes, whatever comes my way, as training to make my play better, more diverse, more thoughtful. That doesn't mean I like it, but it does mean I acknowledge I have to work with everyone and everything in-game in order to become better; you know what? It's working.

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I bring up the ignore feature, because that has a direct impact for me if PGI ever does decide to integrate an in-game voice solution. Will it be a tool that can help some people? Yes. Will it also open the flood gates to the sewage already seen in chat to my speakers? Yes. If PGI is foolish enough to do something like this, while continuing to ignore the players ability to self-regulate, I suspect some players will just move on as the game has become nothing more than any other shooter game with just Mech skins over the avatars.

I still think an ignore feature would be unwarranted, but perhaps if they made a report feature in-game for abuses of in-game voice, that would work. You, and any children that might be around, are always going to be around, as are the ignorant jackasses who have no self-respect, and so it comes down to the idea that, if you're easily offended, or you're offended because of kids around, or because of your faith, you should invest in a good pair of headphones or play in a closed room at particular times so no one else has to listen to the bad behavior. It's going to happen, period and there are so many people who act stupidly that, if you put every one of them on a list so you don't have to play with them, you're going to find yourself alone VERY quickly.

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Thus, we're all forced into paying more attention to the match, our surroundings and what our team mates are doing.

I think you're going to find, once April rolls around and if PGI sticks to their purported time schedule, that units being able to explicitly fight other units is going to change a LOT. In fact, Bryan was saying -at the launch party in September- that PUG matches, as we have them now, are going away. People in a unit are ten times more likely to speak with respect and treat one-another better than those who just drop in for a game. IIRC, he was saying that players will be able to stick with groups formed during the evening, so if you find a good group -like the one I was a part of last night, really good, so good- you like, you'll be able to stick with them, or you can jump groups until you find one you like. I think all of this is going to change in the next four months, and we'll see if there are still complaints, then.

Rhaythe, on 31 December 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

Of course, it doesn't always work. You'll get drops where no one cares or wants to respond, or worse, will actively go against anything you say. That's the internet for you.

It's because of this type of ignorance that matches are lost.

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Unfortunately, the way the reward system works in this game, it inspires the very passive "peek-a-boo" gameplay. Brawling, right now, is a lost art as it exposes you to too much damage.

This is actually how it's supposed to be, in accordance with the lore and the stories. Besides, I've seen plenty of brawling in all of the matches I play in... however, and I might just be in a higher ELO bracket, though I seriously doubt it, but the fighting is a lot more skillful, and a lot less "Gronk beat 'Mech!" There should be room for brawling, for peek-a-boo, for limited boating -thank you, ghost heat-, for LRM throwing with limited results -I'll address this in a moment-, etc. I think you're going to find that the Gronk types are going to rediscover brawling in a way that will be so much more fulfilling than what that abomination MechWarrior 4 did in the past.

Okay, let me address LRMs... a lot of people ***** and complain about LRMs, but let me tell you that, when I go into a game with five tons of ammo, 900 missiles total, and I walk away with 200 damage, that means that around 22% of my missiles are actually hitting a target. Make that 4 missile boats dressed out similarly to mine, and that's 800 damage total -two Heavy 'Mechs worth of armor-, and that's where I have a problem. Missile hits should be a minimum of 35 - 45% hits, period, like it turns out to be in the board game. However, when you have people able to shut down to shun a lock, and you have warnings in the cockpit about incoming missiles and can move out of the way or turn yourself so you take less damage, and you have AMS everywhere, and you have the ubiquitous and LRM-driver-hated frickin' stupid OP ECM, it knocks the nominal hit percentage down to about 20 - 25%. LRMs are the most nerf'd, least successful, most hated-on-by-the-devs-and-non-LRM-drivers weapons system in the game, and it's still catching hell. What about all of the direct damage you take that ACTUALLY kills you. Leave LRMs alone.

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It seems to come and go. Sniper gameplay gets old in any game, and I suspect it will here too. In all honesty, I haven't seen it too terribly much this month (did my ELO bottom out?). But it's a low-risk, high-reward play-style, so I doubt it'll ever go out of fashion entirely.

Sniper gameplay has actually grown a set of balls in this game, but you can't just hide behind a hill, jump up and fire, that ACTUALLY takes skill, now, unlike in MechWarrior IV -can you tell I hated that game-, so people aren't even bothering with pop-tarting, now. They simply aim better and hit their targets. I do it all the time, and I don't need to hide behind a hill. However, I also need to ensure that I hit them, first, because if I don't, my cockpit is all over the place, and I can't hit anything until I'm clear of fire, hehe.

To close, I think in-game voice is coming, and I don't think it's going to be as bad as some might think, and I think changes to gameplay are coming as well. The recent changes to the spawn points on all the maps has made gameplay more difficult, more thought-requiring, and more annoying, hehe. I enjoy it, actually, I do, especially when it's best to consolidate forces at the beginning, as you would actually have to do in a drop. New tactics are being developed, even in PUGs, daily, and new ways to play the game are really making a positive difference, and I am enjoying it greatly.

[Nick Makiaveli]

@ the OP

Here's the deal. How many times am I supposed to say "8-10 mechs D7 moving D8" and watch the PUGs keep chugging along?

Gets old not getting a response, or even better, getting a profane response. Or have someone give away my plans to the enemy because they think they can come back from 2-7 and think base capping is <Redacted>.

So unless it a game changer, I don't normally say anything.

Now if you start talking and make sense, then that's different. I will respond when able and coordinate etc.

Finally, why not jump on NGNG or another TS server and drop with people who want to communicate? Less hassle that way